ECM problem electrical issue

[BroadBand]

EHC problem electrical issue

This is one post I hoped I would never make... :bang:

I need some help in figuring out which direction I should take. About two weeks ago my o4 chopper cut out, went dead like the key was turned off. All electrics were still OK. Waited maybe 2 or 3 minutes, recycled the key off/on a few times, it started up to go a couple hundred yards to konk out again. This time I removed the seat, everything looked OK (circuit breaker NOT tripped, no obvious broke or chaffed wires), I removed the gas cap (thinking vapor lock or no gas) and had gas. Lights, turn signals and horn all operate.
It fired up and ran just fine the rest of the short trip. Saturday afternoon, it cranked and cranked but would not start at all. I keep it on a battery tender all of the time it is not moving. Pulled seat and did not have any lights on the EHC. I pulled the air cleaner and a twist of the throttle sprayed gas in the carb as it should. Since it had gas the next thing I checked was whether it was getting a spark. I pulled both plugs and touched them to the head bolts as I cranked the starter. No spark at all. Put everything back together, attached the battery tender and called it a night.

Next morning I pulled the seat and turned the key and I had lights on the EHC. Hitting the RUN button lit up another light and it started just fine. Gotta love the “self-healing” aspect of these Big Dogs. I thought then to test it with a short 10 mile round trip. At 1.6 on the odometer it died. I pushed & coasted back towards home. So as I pushed up a grade and was just out of breath and popped the seat to see the EHC, turned the key, everything lit up, started it up and rode the rest of the way home. So it had maybe a 15 minute rest or cool down and it started up again. Back on the bat tender. The next day I took out the battery and had it load tested. Mechanic said it is OK fine. Damn, I was hoping it was toast. It was new last riding season.

I am thinking to dump BD electronics at this point. I don’t have the testing equipment to test the cam sensor and I am unsure of the procedure (as explained/posted on this forum) to bypass the EHC. It has a recent upgrade with the HID light from Jake. That was a no brainer. And if something goes wrong with the headlight, can it take out the spark to the plugs? That seems crazy to me but after reading a lot of the posts – just maybe??

How about it guys - What am I over looking? Which way should I go now?

 

[Splitlog]

If you have never replace the EHC before you are lucky. Get with Jake again and get a wire plus from him. It really isn't that hard to install. You also might try removing your EHC connectors and add diolectric grease to them As well. Make sure they are good dry.

 

[choppersforlife]

EHC

Sounds definately like a EHC problem:bang:.

Had several of those exact things that you have explained with my 04 Ridgeback:angry:.

Hooked up with "Jake" and installed a "Wire-Plus" kit and never looked back.

Dump that EHC. Wire-Plus is the way to go.

Ride Safe:2thumbs:

 

[Fibersnake]

Could very well be the ECH, however would get the schematics out a good multimeter and some cold ones out and then go through the troubleshooting and make sure it is not some other electrical demon such as short or grounds.

If ECH is the outcome, at this time with the cost and availability of new BD ECH, best to probably go with a change over to WP.

 

[chacha]

Agree with Fibersnake -- it's worth the time to check the electrics and find the bad connections or components. The symptoms you're describing have been had by several here -- to include me. I trouble shot mine to the cam sensor and got another 1000 miles out of her before the EHC started showing other problems.

One thing to consider is the trust you will have with your ride -- dead on the side of the road can suck and too many of these cut-outs will cause you to not trust it for any useful transport. After repeated electrical problems, I lost faith in all of the BDM electrics and changed out the entire system.

As Fibersnake points out, there is a cost benefit ratio to consider here. IF you can do the trouble shooting yourself you're way ahead. Otherwise if the trouble shoting is going to cost several hundred in labor hours, then it may just be worth it to unload the EHC now and be done with it....

 

[mobsta]

maybe cam sensor?

 

[Night Train]

I am sure I am going to repeat some of what you wrote in your original post, I just want to make sure I have it clear. You indicated the bike "died" while riding just like the key was turned off but from the way you write it, it sounds like the lights, speedo and other elctrical was still fine. So in reality was it more like the "Off" button was pressed? You also indicated that at one time you had the seat off and there were no LEDs on the EHC with key on. Did you press the "Run" key before you looked at it? None of the lights on a 2004 EHC will illuminate unless you have a fault on certain circuits or the Run button has been pressed (after run has been pressed the third LED will light). It is entirely possible the EHC is bad however lets check a couple more things out before you drop the money for a new module.

1. The cam plates are notorious for issues on 2004. Take the cam plate cover off and inspect. Some times you can see obvious damage. When you loose spark check to see if the light on the ignition module blinks when you have key on, run pressed and the starter is turning the motor over. It should blink as you crank.

2. As said the ignition diagnostic light on the EHC should not illuminate if the run button has been pressed. The EHC will default to Off when it is powered up. Next time you stall if it is safe do not touch the key, or any buttons on the hand controls. Pull off to the side of the road and take the seat off. See if the ignition LED is illuminated or if it is off. If it is on try to fire it back up and see if the ignition module light blinks. If the LED is not illuminated check your key switch to make sure it is not having an intermittent open. You should also check the wiring on your right side hand control. I have seen the wires damaged where the wires enter the bars under the hand controls and causes the EHC to think the bike was turned off. Take the hand control off and make sure none of the wires have been damaged.

3. There was a service bulliten that is now a recall on the 2004 EHC. It called to remove the dust seal from the ECH and fill the cavity with dielectric grease. The seal is too thick and does not allow the connector to fully seat and lock into place. The "seal" does nothing to keep out water anyway. Fill it with dielectric grease (not wheel bearing grease or assembly lube, don't laugh I have seen that). Fill the cavity with grease to about the top of the connector pins. When you put the connector back on some of the grease will squish out over the edge and help keep water out. All 4 locks should now engage and keep the connector connected. I have seen some people wire tie the connector as well.

I have not heard of any issues with the HID light on a 2004 EHC but I could not rule it out (Jake could probalby tell you if he has had anyone return an HID on a 2004). This is very unlikely but I will not pull anything off the table when I do not have any data to prove it one way or another.

Start with what I talked about above. Post any more observations, issue or questions you have and I and others will try to help ya out. Possible you have an EHC issue but I would lean towards one of the three items above. Worst thing that happens is you spend no money to look a little deaper and if it turns out to be the EHC you feel confident before you drop the coin.

Mike

 

[Olde Man]

I installed a HID on my 2006 K9 last winter. It would always start OK when the motor was cold. After the dog was warm the bike would start and then shut it self off just as soon as it started to run. I would have to cyle the on button to get it to go again. This would take about 5 or 6 retry's then it would be OK. I suspected the HID trying to restrike an arc after already being on ie "hot lamp". To check this I pulled the headlight apart and changed the high and low beam connectors in their socket. This allows me to start on the regular lamp and then switch to the HID with the high beam switch. It has died a couple of times when I turned the HID on while moving down the road. It is kind of intermittent. I like the visiability and safety of the HID but I like being able to disable it when it is not being "compatable with the EHC". Talk to Jake. He is a straight shooter about his products.

 

[TheDeadOne]

deleted

Request For BDM/BDB Administrative Assistance!

 

[BroadBand]

EHC / update

This is where I am at...

Took apart switch on right handlebar and visually checked circuit board for that side - run, start, R blinker - looked OK.
Battery on tender. Went back with stock headlight, put that all back together. Both hi & low beams fine.

Pulled seat to look at the lights...
Turned key on - 1 light on which is yellow. Far left position, main power.
Pressed RUN and the next light came on RED, ignition.
No headlight, either hi or low.
Toggled hi/low - hi works, low does not.
Pressed START button, starter engages and bike starts.
Drove half a mile and stopped with engine running, I could toggle hi/low beams - both were working.
Drove back and bike unexpectedly shut down completely. I cycled the switch, started and made it back to the garage.
I neglected to check under the seat, wish I would have thought about it, would of liked to see what the lights looked like under the seat.
I let it idle for ten minutes at which time the low beam would go off and on numerous times.
The yellow light came on every time the low beam went off. When the yellow was off, the low beam was on.
The high beam was working no matter what was going on.

Your thoughts and ideas are much appreciated. Most troubling is the "strand-ability" when it just shuts off for no apparent reason.

:flag:

 

[tim caplinger]

who is jake and how do i contact him? i am having ech problems and can,t get parts from bdm because they are saving what they have for warranty customers. i have an 06 k9 thats cutting out, it has been at precision bike works in erie,pa for almost a month. i rode it there for a 10000 mi. service-went to pick it up and it started that shit on the way home-brunswick,oh. long story short it went back to precision on a slideback tow truck. my bikes been there almost a month now,i,m tryin to remember what it looks like.

 

[Night Train]

BroadBand,

I'd pretty much agree with the guy here that knows the most about the EHCs, NightTrain! :2thumbs:

But he mentioned a few things that I think he accidentally mistook here.

The '04 EHC was the "original" prototype of the present day EHCs and Does Not have a diagnostic LED on it!


dead

2004 EHC does have diagnostic LEDs. Just not as many as the new versions.

 

[BroadBand]

who is jake and how do i contact him? .

He is a sponsor on this board.
Click LOW DOWN CHOP SHOP off the main page.

 

[Night Train]

This is where I am at...

Pulled seat to look at the lights...
Turned key on - 1 light on which is yellow. Far left position, main power.
Pressed RUN and the next light came on RED, ignition.

:flag:

You need to try to get it to die on you and with out touching ignition key or off/run switch pull the seat and tell me if the red light, Ignition is still on or if it went out. Have you done the dielectric recall yet?

 

[chacha]

Trouble shooting an EHC and the ignition and control lines is fine if you're trying to save money or avoid replacing the EHC -- but in the end you are only shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

From talking to people it sure appears that if you actually ride the bike (as opposed to park it as a garage queen with less than 1000 miles/year) then you got a reasonable chance of electrical problems. Since EHC are getting hard to find, the idea of unit replacement maintenance isn't going to work.

When something like this happens on other systems (trucks, aircraft, weapons) they replace the unreliable, problem components and wiring with something different and find another supplier. If you want to ride, replacing the EHC with another EHC seems the wrong way to go....

And yes, my 2004 EHC did have diagnostic LEDs.....

"Your mileage may vary"

 

[mobsta]

pull your nose cone cover,start the bike and with a hair dryer warm up the cam sensor and see if it dies out,becareful not to heat other parts and such,just something to try

 

[Night Train]

2004 and 2005 model Big Dogs are notorious for damaged connectors under the gas tank. They didn't design in enough clearance between the tank and back bone. If all the other tests fail pull the tank and inspect connectors before you take the next major step.

 

[pauldeepsea]

Have you checked the cam sensor? I was having very similar issues with the bike cutting off. I removed the cam sensor plate, started the bike up ran a hairdryer near the sensor and sure enough the bike cut out on me.

 

[BroadBand]

Cam sensor

Have you checked the cam sensor? I was having very similar issues with the bike cutting off. I removed the cam sensor plate, started the bike up ran a hairdryer near the sensor and sure enough the bike cut out on me.

Yup, could not get it to cut with the heat from a heat gun pointed at the cam sensor - leads me to believe that's not it anyway...

 

[BroadBand]

WP install pic

I thought I would pass along a blown up picture of the 50 pin connector. It helped me keep track of what's what:

Damn tiny print on that connector.

Another thing to help keep it straight is to label the Deutsch connectors, similar to this:

:flag: