Wolf S&S 121 C.I. X-Wedge

[Tim]

I talked with a S&S rep in Sturgis 2 years ago, he said cams and intake would bump the motor to 140hp range... that was when it was first coming out so these numbers are disappointing.

One thing to keep in mind, which I've learned from my Vette days, is that you can't just put parts together and expect big numbers. I think it's going to be a guessing game until some company/person puts money into performance R&D for the x-wedge. It's going to take trial and error to figure out what will work together on this motor.

 

[BadBrad]

If I had an X wedge, I believe I would PM John Sachs and get his point of view to see if he has done any upgrades on this motor as well as what works and what doesn't. Don't just throw money at it and expect performance.

 

[Vegas]

I talked with a S&S rep in Sturgis 2 years ago, he said cams and intake would bump the motor to 140hp range... that was when it was first coming out so these numbers are disappointing.

One thing to keep in mind, which I've learned from my Vette days, is that you can't just put parts together and expect big numbers. I think it's going to be a guessing game until some company/person puts money into performance R&D for the x-wedge. It's going to take trial and error to figure out what will work together on this motor.

Absolutely, I bet it's in your tune up. With fuel injection and all these wholesale changes, you may very well be leaving a bunch of power on the table in fuel mixture and timing. I'd start looking around for a seasoned tuner and go from there....

When I had my 489 built and dyno tuned, dropping 4 jet sizes netted us almost 30hp. Less timing ended up getting us bigger numbers as well. You have to experiment with a custom engine.

 

[dnespolo]

what the ....?

this morning i went to turn on my wolf and wouldn't start. Actually it started but a few second later it died and couldn't turn it on anymore. it's like she doesn't get any gas. I just got it brand new barely put 350 miles on it. Pretty depressing anybody had the same problem?

 

[jsmuth]

I've managed to get some info from S&S and Big Dog about the 121 X Wedge since it left me stranded in New Mexico. Big Dog keeps the horsepower #'s a heavily guarded secret and the ECM has a manufacturers lock. S&S makes a fully programmable ECM that will replace it but it requires a skilled tech to program it. IMO that will most likely create some warranty issues with BD. Best to deal with a slower bike for 2 years.
My engine is repaired and I will get my Wolf back this weekend. It had a cam and timing belt failure. There is built in clearance for the valves so damage was minimal.

 

[Dragon42]

I just got my new Wolf. I think I'm limiting my mods to pipes and removal of the reflectors. I did talk to S&S, and they will send their programable ECM preloaded with a map for their new cams. The new cams are also compression release. I'll be interested to hear the results after someone trys this. I'm sure these motors will run better once the EPA guard is removed.

 

[dnespolo]

As I said earlier my bike this past Sunday wouldn't start. Do you think the problem may is a cam and timing belt failure? I took the bike to the dealer but I haven't heard anything back yet.
Denny

 

[jsmuth]

Denny, if the bike still has compression i doubt you are having the same issue. My problem occurred at 75 MPH and I really did'nt feel anything. By the way Bob at BDM and the dealer were attentive to my concerns, but there were some communication errors that delayed the return of my Wolf.

 

[dnespolo]

ok good news thanks for the fast info. I just want to ride that bike so bad, I hope I can have it back soon.

 

[chacha]

Dragon42 wrote

I just got my new Wolf. I think I'm limiting my mods to pipes and removal of the reflectors. I did talk to S&S, and they will send their programable ECM preloaded with a map for their new cams. The new cams are also compression release. I'll be interested to hear the results after someone trys this. I'm sure these motors will run better once the EPA guard is removed.

Interesting....please tell us how the cam change and S&S ECM install goes. Which cam does the stock Wolf use?

 

[fmschatz]

If you have compression, then it is not a cam belt. Mine went out at 80 mph. Starter ran but no compression. Had to replace the belt as it shreaded. Rode home on the back of a flat-bed.

 

[dnespolo]

I just talk to the dealer a while ago and they said there is not power at the spark plugs. They don't know what's causing that yet.

 

[Dragon42]

Dragon42 wrote


Interesting....please tell us how the cam change and S&S ECM install goes. Which cam does the stock Wolf use?

I've put a few hundre on the Wolf in the last few days. I'm entertained with the programmed RPM cutout programmed in. One thing is for sure, this does not have the compression release cams. It rarely starts on the first go unless its warm. The stock cams, I believe, are the 548. You can upgrade to the compression release, or go to a higher lift w/ compression release which requires the new ECM. I'm talking to my dealer about warranty if I make the change (through them). There is no doubt that this engine is bottled up due to EPA. i'm just looking for mild changes to optimize it. Removing the reflectors cut down on a lot of drag.

 

[chacha]

Good information -- I wonder if BDM got some of the original cams. The S&S folks now only seem to offer 545 and 548 cams -- both with the easy start implant.

 

[Husker-Wolf]

The Wolf comes with easy start cams. I talked to S&S last summer and at the time they only had one cam available for the X-Wedge and it is a 569. I believe that is still the only cam option currently. They do offer two big bore kits in either a 128" or 132". I'll probably throw the cam in this winter.

 

[Dragon42]

The Wolf comes with easy start cams. I talked to S&S last summer and at the time they only had one cam available for the X-Wedge and it is a 569. I believe that is still the only cam option currently. They do offer two big bore kits in either a 128" or 132". I'll probably throw the cam in this winter.

Jeff, You got me thinking. There is so much mixed information. I called S&S. They had to dig because "the guy" is on vacation. They pulled the build sheet on my motor. I have early Non-compression release 548 cams. They are working on a compression release 569 cam which they say isn't quite ready, and they have a 548 upgrade kit with the 2 exhaust CR cams. They plan to release big bore kits in the spring with CNC ported heads and newer cams. They mentioned the 132, but I was told that may require a stroker crank, which to me is way too much work. If they have a simple big bore kit, that is for me. I'll wait until Spring to see what they have to offer. At a minimum I'll upgrade to the 569 CR cams and leave the rest alone. In any event, we're in for some more power relatively soon. While I wait, I guess I'll fix the ridiculous vinyl seat, and dream of a Wolf with a 132" motor!

 

[Husker-Wolf]

Jeff, You got me thinking. There is so much mixed information. I called S&S. They had to dig because "the guy" is on vacation. They pulled the build sheet on my motor. I have early Non-compression release 548 cams. They are working on a compression release 569 cam which they say isn't quite ready, and they have a 548 upgrade kit with the 2 exhaust CR cams. They plan to release big bore kits in the spring with CNC ported heads and newer cams. They mentioned the 132, but I was told that may require a stroker crank, which to me is way too much work. If they have a simple big bore kit, that is for me. I'll wait until Spring to see what they have to offer. At a minimum I'll upgrade to the 569 CR cams and leave the rest alone. In any event, we're in for some more power relatively soon. While I wait, I guess I'll fix the ridiculous vinyl seat, and dream of a Wolf with a 132" motor!

I didn't know about the "early build" versions either. I talked to Ken Wolfe last July and he sent me part numbers and everything for the cams and big bore kits. No mention of needing a new crank though. Lots of mystery yet I guess.

 

[chacha]

I was up through the S&S Plant this summer on the way to Sturgis. S&S was clearly behind the X-Wedge, but there are not as many of them out there as they had hoped. Looking at the line and talking to the staff, it was pretty clear they're looking at upgrades for this motor, but with no base, I think they get to it when they can. One of the Tech's hinted that the CR Cams for all their motors was the result of the X-Wedge research.

 

[Dragon42]

Man, I'm glad this site is here. It's great that so many guys are checking this stuff out. I think there is some good stuff coming our way, but we're on the forefront. The X is all new. Keep posting what you learn!

 

[jsmuth]

I spoke to a S&S tech about 3 months ago concerning the horsepower #'s.
They had dyno'ed a wolf and recorded #'s about 10% higher than Rick the topic starter. Could be an altitude variance. The 2009 Wolf doesn't have compression relief cams, the 2010 does. S&S replaced my cams with the updated version when they repaired it. I'll find out tomorrow if there is a difference when I pick up my bike(48 days without). They also stated there is a significant amount of horsepower to be gained by changing the ECM. It will cost you your BDM warranty. Perhaps Moots of Bourget's can help Rick out. I'm considering the ECM and S&S suggested I have him tune it.