EFM Autoclutch

[JeffM]

Well i made it home without calling the wife to come get me and the bike.
Was i happy with the set up.............in a word no. I still have some slippage at times.
I am still reaching for the lever, which i have tied back to stop it flopping about in the breeze.
After xmas i will play with the rod and adjust it to disengage the clutch, but at present i have reinstalled it with about 4 turns out from contact.

Would i recommend this product for BDM.................no. Not unless you have a lot of time to kill and nothing better to do.
Will I be going back to OEM set up...............yes, but i will play with this for a while.
Thanks to Tapio and all the other BM's for their help.

 

[JeffM]

An up date on the never ending saga.
I have just go back from a 2 day ride. When we left home the sun was shinning the birds were singing etc.

However after an hour we had solid rain for the next 2 days.........and we all know how our dogs like the water?

The clutch has worked fine but i have not adjusted the lever yet and at times crept forward ever so slightly.
BUT 50 klm from home while accelerating to over take a car my revs went we up but i didn't move WTF.
So steady steady till i got home, that was Sunday.
Now Tuesday i have removed my primary (I know each bolt by name by now). Oil was quite clear and had no "bits" in it, removed the inner hub and found aluminum swarf in the groves of the outer hub, but nowhere else.
I am assuming the EFM was touching the inner hub, but on inspection there appears to be no scoring. Possibly from the clutch plate that sits against the aluminum EFM clutch.
So i went through the preceding posts to discover Tapio has had his inner hub machined down to 51.77mm mine is 54.3mm.
I didn't think this would matter provided you have the correct end float of between .055" and .065" as recommended by EFM. Please correct me if i am wrong.

Maybe my clutch pack is settling?

But if i am creeping at idle, you would think i would have positive engagement during acceleration.

Thought people.

 

[JeffM]

I can't help you with your problem but my hats off to you for hanging in there. I would have thrown it in the lake by now. Although it seems it would make a most excellent paper weight.

Paper weight, hadn't thought of that.
Got a reply from EFM, i have to find a Navajo wind talker to interperate it.
Or some sort of wiegi board.
He is saying my inner hub needs to be machined to 1.230" in height WTF it is over 2" now, so to make it work i have to machine 3/4" off the over all length, that means i will have 6 plates and discs driving my clutch on a 120 HP motorcycle.................idiot.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

Paper weight, hadn't thought of that.
Got a reply from EFM, i have to find a Navajo wind talker to interperate it.
Or some sort of wiegi board.
He is saying my inner hub needs to be machined to 1.230" in height WTF it is over 2" now, so to make it work i have to machine 3/4" off the over all length, that means i will have 6 plates and discs driving my clutch on a 120 HP motorcycle.................idiot.

Tapio may know but maybe he just means the actual hub part. Don't include the carrier or the ring gear.

Just that middle round piece.

This part

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[TapioK]

An up date on the never ending saga.
I have just go back from a 2 day ride. When we left home the sun was shinning the birds were singing etc.

However after an hour we had solid rain for the next 2 days.........and we all know how our dogs like the water?

The clutch has worked fine but i have not adjusted the lever yet and at times crept forward ever so slightly.
BUT 50 klm from home while accelerating to over take a car my revs went we up but i didn't move WTF.
So steady steady till i got home, that was Sunday.
Now Tuesday i have removed my primary (I know each bolt by name by now). Oil was quite clear and had no "bits" in it, removed the inner hub and found aluminum swarf in the groves of the outer hub, but nowhere else.
I am assuming the EFM was touching the inner hub, but on inspection there appears to be no scoring. Possibly from the clutch plate that sits against the aluminum EFM clutch.
So i went through the preceding posts to discover Tapio has had his inner hub machined down to 51.77mm mine is 54.3mm.
I didn't think this would matter provided you have the correct end float of between .055" and .065" as recommended by EFM. Please correct me if i am wrong.

Maybe my clutch pack is settling?

But if i am creeping at idle, you would think i would have positive engagement during acceleration.

Thought people.

Yeah, if the inner hub is too "tall" it restricts the movement of the pressure plate. But if plates are even (or slightly above) with inner hub clutch should not slip unless the total movement of the pressure plate is way too small.
Don't remember whether I sent you an extra friction, you might try having friction and not steel against the pressure plate!
I don't see steel plate eating pressure plate unless pack is slipping a lot, but that is only moving aluminum part in your clutch! All he bolts holding inner hub are tight? If they back up those would eat the pressure plate
Starting to think if all the parts sit flat to each other and are machined straight?
On my clutch the balls traveled pretty much the length of the ramp.
Could it be that if the ball movement is not enough there is not enough pressure. Ie. the ramp angle is not linear, but progressive.


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[TapioK]

Tapio may know but maybe he just means the actual hub part. Don't include the carrier or the ring gear.

Just that middle round piece.

This part

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Can't remember that part needing any mods...
I did call EFM once, sent him one e-mail. Never understood a word he said or wrote. To me the shit he said or advised made no sense what so ever.


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[Th3InfamousI]

Can't remember that part needing any mods...
I did call EFM once, sent him one e-mail. Never understood a word he said or wrote. To me the shit he said or advised made no sense what so ever.


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He probably didn't understand you either...haha

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[TapioK]

He probably didn't understand you either...haha

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Most likely!


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[JeffM]

Thanks guys, i responded to his request to machine 3/4" off my inner hub, he has not responded.

The movement of the center of the EFM auto clutch is approx .050" and is not touching the top of the machined inner hub, however under load-acceleration this will be compressed a bit more of coarse and therefore may make slight contact.
If i put another plate or disc in i will have compressed the clutch and the bike will creep, i already have a fibre disc against the aluminum clutch, do you think i should alter this and put a steel in its place?

I think i may only be after a couple of thou here, and i had no issues during the day just the last bit.
I will set it all back up check the measurements and if required i may machine .5mm off the inner hub face and reset height of discs and plates.

 

[TapioK]

Thanks guys, i responded to his request to machine 3/4" off my inner hub, he has not responded.

The movement of the center of the EFM auto clutch is approx .050" and is not touching the top of the machined inner hub, however under load-acceleration this will be compressed a bit more of coarse and therefore may make slight contact.
If i put another plate or disc in i will have compressed the clutch and the bike will creep, i already have a fibre disc against the aluminum clutch, do you think i should alter this and put a steel in its place?

I think i may only be after a couple of thou here, and i had no issues during the day just the last bit.
I will set it all back up check the measurements and if required i may machine .5mm off the inner hub face and reset height of discs and plates.

Be careful. You can't shave too much of the inner hub or pressure plate won't reach the plates! There is only so much it can move. Next you have to machine basket too!
If the bike creeps with thicker plates, adjust the rod a bit and it should be OK. Easiest way to take care of the tiny creep (you can hold the bike with feet easily) is to adjust the lever correctly and just pull it to release clutch. It should stay released even if you then release the lever.... cable is adjusted correctly like it was with original clutch, tiny bit loose on lever say from 2000 -3000 rpm. up. It has to have a bit of play or cable doesn't let pressure plate to move enough...
Hope this helps!
I used mine both steel and fiber against plate, both worked fine. On mine the clutch grabbed so hard it "glued" the friction to the aluminum plate, that's why I tried steel last. Worked as good for me. I don't know if it matters if friction is solid with pressure plate, I guess not. I just liked the idea of steel against the plate
Hope this helps!


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[Th3InfamousI]

3/4" of the inner hub can't be right. That's too much

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[TapioK]

3/4" of the inner hub can't be right. That's too much

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Yep, that is total bull shit.


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[JeffM]

Tapio, i'm not sure if you or EFM sent me a 1/2 friction/steel plate, but i found that and have installed it against the alum EFM clutch. I have also sanded the plates and the tips of my fingers on wet & dry to remove any distortion/bluing.
Got my trusty dial gauge out and set it up to adjust my stack, i now have .055" and no contact with the top of the inner hub, i still have .028" clearence + the step in the EFM clutch, so that should be heaps.
I still have not adjusted the rod at all, i will do that tomorrow before i go for a ride. 41 Deg C and 99% humidity here today, so sitting inside with the AC running flat out. Almost beer time.

 

[TapioK]

Tapio, i'm not sure if you or EFM sent me a 1/2 friction/steel plate, but i found that and have installed it against the alum EFM clutch. I have also sanded the plates and the tips of my fingers on wet & dry to remove any distortion/bluing.
Got my trusty dial gauge out and set it up to adjust my stack, i now have .055" and no contact with the top of the inner hub, i still have .028" clearence + the step in the EFM clutch, so that should be heaps.
I still have not adjusted the rod at all, i will do that tomorrow before i go for a ride. 41 Deg C and 99% humidity here today, so sitting inside with the AC running flat out. Almost beer time.

I sure hope that does the trick! EFM sure has been a pain in the ass for you!


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[JeffM]

Still slipping at all RPM, That's it i am now officially over it.
I start back to work Tuesday for 2.5 months so i won't be ridding or touching the bike till then.
Then i will be putting it back to OEM.

 

[TapioK]

Still slipping at all RPM, That's it i am now officially over it.
I start back to work Tuesday for 2.5 months so i won't be ridding or touching the bike till then.
Then i will be putting it back to OEM.

Are those balls moving freely on the ramps? Your problems seem so strange


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[JeffM]

Are those balls moving freely on the ramps? Your problems seem so strange


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I presume so, i can't see it inside the primary cover.
The dimensions EFM gave me.
"With the bike on a stand, press the center plate inwards till it makes contact with the discs adjust to .05 to .06""
When you and Garry helped me figure out i had missed this step, you sent me plates (Thank you) then a week later both lots of plates turned up so i set it up again and got .051". This seemed to work fine on a 3 day ride however i did have some slippage, then 2 weeks ago we did a 400 mile ride still without the rod anywhere near the clutch and the lever tied back i got slippage.
Then i did all the stuff previously mentioned above rode it 120 miles and it slipped all the way, during mild and hard acceleration, during take off as well. I did however have the rod in play this time, and set that up exactly like you said with .055" clearance. I even backed it off more when we got to our destination, thinking it may be what the cause is, alas no. I have 1/2" to 5/8" slop at the lever at 70 MPH in 6th, i have the same at 100 MPH and it is still slipping at these speeds if up twist the grip and demand a bit more. WTF HD's are keeping up with me now, I can't have that.

 

[TapioK]

Remind me you Don't have synthetic oil on your primary? That might cause the slippage. I would drop the frictions to ATF oil for a night and wash them good with that. Just to make sure the problem is not on frictions.
Slipping doesn't make any sense, if all the parts move freely and pressure plate has room to press the pack it is really hard to see it slipping! Those balls create a shitload of pressure! Way more than original spring...
How did you set those springs? You have 2 on every slot? Also check every plate by putting them on glass table just to make sure they are all sitting flat.


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[JeffM]

LOL.
No Synthetic or ATF, just good o'l mineral 20/40. May seem high but we ride in 120F constantly.
I have one of those little springs at each position i think, still as it was shipped.
I would have thought less spring pressure the easier it would load up, the way i see it the springs assist the return to disengage the clutch when idling.
Gees i don't know what else there is, we have almost exhausted all options, as i said i am over it, when it works it is great, then when your riding along with a group (i am usually leading) and i accelerate to overtake anywhere from 35 mph to 100 mph with no rod touching the EFM it slips and i end up at the back of 60 bikes. Christ i have Sportsters passing me and they ride right at the back.
Anyway.
I am sitting here in the AC with a beer, too bloody hot outside and it is building up to a decent storm tonight, i hope may cool it down.
Drop over for a beer.. ;-)

 

[TapioK]

You are right, those sprigs make the clutch "open". With only one spring on each position no wonder there is a slight creeping. But it sure shouldn't slip!


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