clutch ADJ Help

[rasdes]

Hello to all....

Lots of great info and help on this forum..thanks to all that have ever replied to anyone!!

My bike was jumping forward when I shift from N to 1st gear. Decided to adjust the clutch. Read just about every thread on clutch adjusting, followed all instructions to the tee. The only way I can stop the jumping when going from N to 1st is to continue turning the allen screw in well after initial resistance is met, this is approximately 1 to 2 complete turns after taking all resistance out. After that I then take all slack out of the cable. N is easy to find, no jumping forward. Will this hurt the clutch, is this OK...normal, what could be the cause to turn it in that far? Most say tighten the center screw with your finger, tighten the lock nut; that method causes the bike to jump even worst, the more I screw the center in, the smoother the shift from N to 1st....any ideas is much appreciated..

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

BE VERY CAREFUL.
If you screw that in too far you can start to unseat the push rod cup that is seated into the throw out bearing and you'll be in for a world of issues when it pops all the way out.

Any other symptoms?
Have you pulled the primary cover to check things from that side?
How far are you usually riding? does the clutch play change during that time when the bike gets hot?
How many miles on the bike?

 

[Bowhunter]

Not an expert here by any means, but I just replaced my clutch cable and adjusted my clutch to first resistance, then backed it out 1/4 turn and locked it down. My bike drops into neutral easily, and it does not jump at all when I put it in gear. I would be like Mike said, and suspect something wrong on the primary side.

 

[Little-Boo]

You need to release the tension of the cable first then adjust the rod. The adjustment on the cable to adjust the Lever not the clutch. The reason it jump forward is because the clutch is engaged, the only way that can happen is if the the rod is screwed in beyond the resistance point. When doing that I used to use my finger only and not allen wrench, once it stopped I backed it out 1/4 turn, hold it in place with the allen wrench and tighten the nut. That worked good for me back then. I now have a Auto Clutch so the adjustment is different for my dog.

Carlos

 

[rasdes]

Thanks all...First let me ask, is the bike supposed to be at operational temp or cold when adjusting the clutch? My adjustment was done cold.....I don't mean to repeat myself but.....The bike was very hard to push while in gear with the clutch lever pulled in and the bike jumped when going from N to 1st, the bike has 2400 miles. My first step was to remove ALL slack out of the clutch cable, did this before I started adjusting the rod, backed off the lock nut, screwed the rod in with my fingers until resistance was met, backed out 1/4 turn, tighten lock nut and then took all slack out of cable. This method results in the bike jumping badly from N to 1st, extremely hard to push the bike while in gear with the clutch lever pulled in.

Carlos.....Following the same procedure above, instead of tightening the rod finger tight, I continue to turn the rod with the Allen wrench 1-2 turns after resistance was met, then took all slack out of the cable, doing this, the bike does not jump at all, very easy to find N, very easy to push while in gear with the lever pulled in. I have not inspected anything on the primary side. Will this cause any damage if I ride with the rod tightened as above...or open for suggestions on what to do next?

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

It is done at ambient temperature.
Turn clutch cable adjuster to provide MAXIMUM slack in cable.
You say you removed all slack -- That looks like where you went wrong.

 

[Mickeetwo]

It is done at ambient temperature.
Turn clutch cable adjuster to provide MAXIMUM slack in cable.
You say you removed all slack -- That looks like where you went wrong.

Theres your problem.....Big Mike nailed it :2thumbs:

 

[BBChopper]

Hello to all....

Lots of great info and help on this forum..thanks to all that have ever replied to anyone!!

My bike was jumping forward when I shift from N to 1st gear. Decided to adjust the clutch. Read just about every thread on clutch adjusting, followed all instructions to the tee. The only way I can stop the jumping when going from N to 1st is to continue turning the allen screw in well after initial resistance is met, this is approximately 1 to 2 complete turns after taking all resistance out. After that I then take all slack out of the cable. N is easy to find, no jumping forward. Will this hurt the clutch, is this OK...normal, what could be the cause to turn it in that far? Most say tighten the center screw with your finger, tighten the lock nut; that method causes the bike to jump even worst, the more I screw the center in, the smoother the shift from N to 1st....any ideas is much appreciated..

If you screw the rod in after initial contact your clutch is going to slip under load.
Also cause wear on the throw out bearing..
Try backing only 1/8 turn after contact.

 

[Sven]

Moving the set screw deeper into the pressure plate makes the pressure plate move out as if you were pulling on the clutch lever. Therefore, your clutch plates are trying to separate farther away from each other. This is caused by a warp in one or more of the plates.

They should be flat when stacked upon each other. If there is an air gap, then there is your warp at that plate. Yes, that one plate can cause 1st gear lunge and hard to find N is the warp of the plate. Also, there is a pressure plate that concaves. This cannot pull away from the plates upon full lever pull. What this does is it drags or pushes the plates still. Thus, a hard to find N. This wave plate has to remain flat upon assembly. Only way it moves flat is having the clutch pack set to spec thicknesses.

For demonstration purposes, this is how you pack the plates and steels. Place palm over the top of one hand. Roll your fingers forward. That says, plates have memory. Plates have a cut edge and a round edge. Find all cut sides, face them toward you as you assemble the pack. Place fingers to each other as if in prayer. Note how the plates turned around; are now forcing into each other; not collapsing all in one direction; as did the fingers all face in that one direction.

This also has a bite direction as the plates collapse. So, you cannot discriminate as to installing plate after plate. Got it?

1. The inspection ~ Stack the steels in your hand with all the cuts laid in one direction on top of each other. Note air gap(s). Do the same with the frictions.

2. Pack ~ "FACE All steels and frictions" with the cut side toward you.

3. Cable ~ Run all threads into the cable and/or clutch perch's thumb wheel and adjuster so you show no threads. This is the most slack you can have at the lever/cable system.

4. Set screw ~ Turn the set screw lightly onto the push rod, turn the screw out 1/4 turn. Hold screw, tighten set nut to spec.

5. Threads showing ~ Run the cable's threads out so the adjustment has an 1/8th to a 1/16th gap at the lever and perch. With the thumb wheel adjuster not showing threads, you now can watch the clutch wear as you move the thumb wheel's screw out, you no longer need to move the set screw once the initial [pressure plate] adjustment is made.

6. If you can't find N now ~ You may have fumbled one of the steps... It's too easy now, right?! :up:

 

[rasdes]

Pablo......I misstated something above, I screwed the adjusting cable completely together, I could see NO threads on the cable adjustment, this added the maximum amount of slack in the cable, I did this before adjusting the rod. After adjusting the Rod, I then removed all slack from the cable which made the clutch lever tight with 1/16in of play.

I guess the bottom line question is: If I adjust the clutch correctly according to the above and the bike still jumps what should I look at next?

 

[2004BC]

Moving the set screw deeper into the pressure plate makes the pressure plate move out as if you were pulling on the clutch lever. Therefore, your clutch plates are trying to separate farther away from each other. This is caused by a warp in one or more of the plates.

They should be flat when stacked upon each other. If there is an air gap, then there is your warp at that plate. Yes, that one plate can cause 1st gear lunge and hard to find N is the warp of the plate. Also, there is a pressure plate that concaves. This cannot pull away from the plates upon full lever pull. What this does is it drags or pushes the plates still. Thus, a hard to find N. This wave plate has to remain flat upon assembly. Only way it moves flat is having the clutch pack set to spec thicknesses.

For demonstration purposes, this is how you pack the plates and steels. Place palm over the top of one hand. Roll your fingers forward. That says, plates have memory. Plates have a cut edge and a round edge. Find all cut sides, face them toward you as you assemble the pack. Place fingers to each other as if in prayer. Note how the plates turned around; are now forcing into each other; not collapsing all in one direction; as did the fingers all face in that one direction.

This also has a bite direction as the plates collapse. So, you cannot discriminate as to installing plate after plate. Got it?

1. The inspection ~ Stack the steels in your hand with all the cuts laid in one direction on top of each other. Note air gap(s). Do the same with the frictions.

2. Pack ~ "FACE All steels and frictions" with the cut side toward you.

3. Cable ~ Run all threads into the cable and/or clutch perch's thumb wheel and adjuster so you show no threads. This is the most slack you can have at the lever/cable system.

4. Set screw ~ Turn the set screw lightly onto the push rod, turn the screw out 1/4 turn. Hold screw, tighten set nut to spec.

5. Threads showing ~ Run the cable's threads out so the adjustment has an 1/8th to a 1/16th gap at the lever and perch. With the thumb wheel adjuster not showing threads, you now can watch the clutch wear as you move the thumb wheel's screw out, you no longer need to move the set screw once the initial [pressure plate] adjustment is made.

6. If you can't find N now ~ You may have fumbled one of the steps... It's too easy now, right?! :up:

Sven and BBChopper are right. Since your cable is slack and you've adjusted for normal circumstances then you have another problem that you are overcompensating for by pushing your pressure plate out further than you should. You will temporarily work but it will chew itself up quickly being preloaded. Either your pressure plate springs are too loose and you have to travel farther to disengage or you have a warped plate and you again have to travel farther to spin freely. Check it out. Don't think that turning in 2 turns after engagement with the clutch rod is your solution. Good luck.

 

[rasdes]

Thanks to all , really - really appreciate your time and input. Before I rip into the primary side, pls tell me exactly what gaskets / O Rings / Seals I will need to inspect the clutch and where to buy them. I assume, the primary cover gasket, the primary side cover O ring or gasket, 32 oz of primary oil, if I order from on line what model V twin am I looking for or is there someone I can call that's familiar w/Big Dogs that knows what I need. Thanks again to all that replied...appreciate your time!!!!

 

[1BADK9]

Rick that primary side o-ring is reusable just be certain not to damage it taking the cover off and you can reuse it. Let

 

[rasdes]

Guys.....removed the primary cover to inspect the clutch, everything was extremely tight to include the clutch nut; removed and checked every single disk and plate...all are flat and not warped at all, the only wear I see, if it's even considered wear is the tip of the clutch rod, what else should I check before reassembly? I'm afraid that I'll end up with the same problem and accomplished nothing but learned how to remove the clutch. Your thoughts on what to check next is appreciated...Thanks

 

[keithcuda]

i also have a clutch adjustment concern... i myself have adjusted my clutch just like everyone has stated to do. the problem im having is that after i tighten my nut on the push rod and start to take out the slack from the clutch cable. i have to extend the clutch cable ALL the way out.. to the point that there isnt much room to go much farther at all. im almost running out of threads on the damn thing. its a pretty cable since i broke my previous one.. almost seems like its slightly too long of a cable... any suggestions??

 

[Sven]

There is this thing called, 'pack.' It's a fancy name that says, 'make sure the last plate does not fall out"; you packed it too thick! The one plate will slip out of the tangs, the pressure plate moves that far away = Watch OUT!

Since you have the parts physically in hand, figure out what you are looking for?

1. I have no burnt/warp steel discs.
2. I have plenty of pad left on the frictions, I can dig my fingernail into the soft material.
3. I have plenty of 'fall out' space when the last clutch is set in place. Meaning, it is a 1/16" deep from the end of the clutch outer's tangs/forks/fingers ~ Take your pick.

How I determine 'wear from warp?':

A. My steels and frictions look great. I think? However, my frictions look fine. There is no warp, no burnt high spots on the steels. My fingers don't dig some glass wall, I'll slip with glazed over frictions so baked, there is no cushion to sink into. It now, rolls over each other. Chatters some on release.

B. My pads may look like they have plenty of fiber left, I have to remember design and a small increment of play between lever and pack. The more threads I see at the cable or the perch' thumb wheel assembly, the deeper into the tangs the whole pack moves. My steels rub down. My pads thin down. The pack moves in no matter how well parts look. Wear means = "Pleasantly worn out."

C. My next inspection [if] warp is not a factor, I must now look at my pack setting at the end of the clutch outer's tangs. I more look at the pressure plate design. Again, there is a solid pressure plate with the dry clutch system, and for argument sake, a wet clutch that has a wave plate:

Wave [pressure] plate ~ I must have this as flat as a pancake. I can tell if my pack thins out, moves deeper into the clutch outer and clutch center, is to watch my wave plate 'concave.' This tells me I need to install a friction or stack a steel 'back to back,' so my pack is closer to pushing the wave of that plate back to a flat static setting.

Flat pressure plate ~ I must see where my pack ends, my pressure plate sits on assembly. I want that last plate to fall out [literally]. See how I pushed the springs coil windings to more pressure? See how if the pack goes deep, the spring pressure goes weak? I have to look at my last plate [installed], see if it is well packed, being so close to the end of the finger tangs. This way, my cable threads are hardly showing. My pull at the lever hardly moves on the breaking of the plate.

Are you catching clutch design? Look at the big picture, so you can find who/what/where the action is falling off? That says; I can't find N, I almost broke my ankle. I'm slipping in high rpm, I sit there with a screaming engine going nowhere. I'm at a light with 1st in gear and hurry green, I'm half way in between the intersection kind of ain't we in a pickle.

 

[rasdes]

Keithcoda,

Thanks for hijacking my thread!!!!!!!! Pls start your own help wanted thread, now everyone is going to see your question and respond to it rather than mine....that's why you should start a new thread when seekinhg help.

All ...pls refer to my last question and help if you can....thanks You.

 

[keithcuda]

Keithcoda,

Thanks for hijacking my thread!!!!!!!! Pls start your own help wanted thread, now everyone is going to see your question and respond to it rather than mine....that's why you should start a new thread when seekinhg help.

All ...pls refer to my last question and help if you can....thanks You.

you spelled my name wrong bub! and seriously??? i had a question that was related to clutch adjustment just like you did on your thread. you never know. you might even learn something from what i asked...

 

[keithcuda]

Thanks to all , really - really appreciate your time and input. Before I rip into the primary side, pls tell me exactly what gaskets / O Rings / Seals I will need to inspect the clutch and where to buy them. I assume, the primary cover gasket, the primary side cover O ring or gasket, 32 oz of primary oil, if I order from on line what model V twin am I looking for or is there someone I can call that's familiar w/Big Dogs that knows what I need. Thanks again to all that replied...appreciate your time!!!!

get on BDM.com to find out what gaskets you need and then order them from there... or better yet, since you own a big dog try calling them and ordering the parts. its not rocket science, my 6 year old niece could of figured that out..

 

[wyatt580]

This is gonna get interesting.........