Avon Cobra Tires for BD Wolf

Energy One

Grimmeute

Member
There is around 150 Bid Dog Wolf bike that BDM has built, as per Chris Theobald from BDM.
I have exchanged by e-mail with Avon tires.
Avon tires are willing to reproduce the mold and the tire if they have a request of 500 tires and the funds
money to start.
Avon stated that they need close of 45 weeks to start from the beginning to the end, since they have destroy the mold, but still have the pattern.
BDM are aware of it, since I send them all the information by e-mail.
BDM does not have a solution yet and I am not sure if they are interested to invest funds to reproduce the tire thru Avon Tires.
HDM , Donna & Derek are still working to fabricate a smaller wheel diameter (18 x 8.5) with a 240-40-18 tires.
HDM are still waiting from the machine shop , since they need to send at least 10 wheels to fabricate and chrome.
This is the information that I have so far
View attachment 71704View attachment 71705View attachment 71706View attachment 71707
I have forwarded this post to my boss. Let’s see where this goes.
 

matteo

Member
now is good time to renegotiate, In essence cooper will reopen and be desperate for orders to backfill losses. I would negoiate set up costs radically
 

mjsk9

Well-Known Member
now is good time to renegotiate, In essence cooper will reopen and be desperate for orders to backfill losses. I would negotiate set up costs radically
With any serious negotiation, both parties need to have a position of strength and interest. Based on the information reported by "Jeep Lee" that was provided by Big Dog, "around 150 Bid Dog Wolf bike that BDM has built, as per Chris Theobald from BDM" in addition, "Avon tires are willing to reproduce the mold and the tire if they have a request of 500 tires and the funds money to start. Avon stated that they need close of 45 weeks to start from the beginning to the end, since they have destroy the mold, but still have the pattern."
Based on this information, you can throw some hypothetical numbers to see what this means: All #s are intentionally on the high side.....
Scenario 1:
-Assume 95% of the Wolfs made are still on the road = 143 tires
-Assume 50% (I think this would be an exceptionally high %) of Wolf owners purchase immediately when available = 72 tires
-The remaining purchase over a 1 - 3 year period of time = 72 tires
-Leaves 357 tires with born on dates already 3 years or older.
I don't see a position of strength in this business proposition.
Scenario 2:
-All owners by the inventory immediately (one year from now = 45 week lead time stated): 500 / 143 = 3.5 Tires per person so second run of tires does not occur until 2030 or beyond?
I don't see a position of strength in this business proposition either.
 

pknowles

RETIRED
With any serious negotiation, both parties need to have a position of strength and interest. Based on the information reported by "Jeep Lee" that was provided by Big Dog, "around 150 Bid Dog Wolf bike that BDM has built, as per Chris Theobald from BDM" in addition, "Avon tires are willing to reproduce the mold and the tire if they have a request of 500 tires and the funds money to start. Avon stated that they need close of 45 weeks to start from the beginning to the end, since they have destroy the mold, but still have the pattern."
Based on this information, you can throw some hypothetical numbers to see what this means: All #s are intentionally on the high side.....
Scenario 1:
-Assume 95% of the Wolfs made are still on the road = 143 tires
-Assume 50% (I think this would be an exceptionally high %) of Wolf owners purchase immediately when available = 72 tires
-The remaining purchase over a 1 - 3 year period of time = 72 tires
-Leaves 357 tires with born on dates already 3 years or older.
I don't see a position of strength in this business proposition.
Scenario 2:
-All owners by the inventory immediately (one year from now = 45 week lead time stated): 500 / 143 = 3.5 Tires per person so second run of tires does not occur until 2030 or beyond?
I don't see a position of strength in this business proposition either.

Just a guess, but I don't think this will ever happen. Cheaper to go with Derick's option and if the fender doesn't fit to your liking, get another fender.
 

Grimmeute

Member
I was thinking the same way. 500 tire commitment on, I was guessing 100 bikes on road still, is asking for too much. So yes, it definitely needs re negotiated if possible.
 

Jeep Lee

New Member
On the picture, it is the one on the left side (240-40-18), the right side is the original tire (220-50-20). The rim (wheel) is different from the original.

Avon tire response below in regards of the rear tire (220-50-20):
Hi, here is the response from our engineer. So roughly 45 weeks. We would need the tooling funds up front as well as payment for the tires. I will check on when the payment for tires would be upon production or earlier in the process.

From a development point of view and once this had been signed off by the business team, the below would be approx. lead times:
  • Drawing – 3 weeks
  • Mould production – 12 weeks
  • Mould Freight – 6 weeks
  • Spec industrialisation – 24 weeks
Getting sign off will be the hard part as this will require £15,000 tooling investment and development time for an order of 500 tyres.

Cheers!

Major Accounts Sales Manager N. America
AVON MOTORCYLCE TYRES NORTH AMERICA
Bath Road, Melksham
SN12 8AA, UK
 

matteo

Member
That is actually a good deal. I assume tire price would be wholesale. So (in pounds sterling) that is 15000+ (500*140) = 85,000, or 170 pounds. x 1.23 currency exchange rate = 209 per tire. Add shipping, we are at 240 per tire. That is what a tire costs at the retailer. If we Wolf owners bought 3 a piece (sets us up for 6-9 yrs), and a few of our dealer friends bought some, we are as the saying goes set for life. Of course tires age, so we would all be well advised to vacuum pack the extras (oxidation, exposure to air, is the number one killer, and UV rays number two. Vacuum wrapped in nitrogen (you know those wine preserver kits to save the open bottle for later?) and you are golden. PS, confirmed that whacky sounding idea with Cooper Tire EVP of Production.

Again. I'll take 3! I have the different rim/tire setup. The gap is bigger, the look definitely changed. Marky - the black Wolf (no pinstripe - Prototype bike) in Derek's pic, that is yours (mine) correct?
 

matteo

Member
PS to get a hold of other Wolf owners, maybe we post an add on Ebay for the tire. Show minimum order three. Set listing to "preorder" for $1, final due when say 400 tires are ordered. This will then pop up in all the search engines on the internet. Yes im being hopeful. I just look at my bike and like the stock tire.......
 

Grimmeute

Member
PS to get a hold of other Wolf owners, maybe we post an add on Ebay for the tire. Show minimum order three. Set listing to "preorder" for $1, final due when say 400 tires are ordered. This will then pop up in all the search engines on the internet. Yes im being hopeful. I just look at my bike and like the stock tire.......
Matteo do you not like the wheel Eric and Donna has come up with? Donna told me last night they moved the brake back to original side on right on their Latest redesign. They are being chromed right now. I’m kinda digging that fat ass tire
 

matteo

Member
I hear you on the fat part for sure. I just dislike the height change. If I must go to it, I will. in fact im ordering the conversion from D*D to be safe
 

mleach72

Well-Known Member
I would imagine that you have to do a speedometer calibration after the swap. Correct? Seems like quite a bit different circumference between the two wheels.
 

mleach72

Well-Known Member
Yep, I just ran the numbers because I'm bored out of my mind. 220/50/20 has a circumference of 90". 240/40/18 has a circumference of 80.25". 220/50/20=704 rotations/mile. 240/40/18=789 rotations/mile. Big difference! Definitely need to recalibrate the speedo.
 

Grimmeute

Member
Yep, I just ran the numbers because I'm bored out of my mind. 220/50/20 has a circumference of 90". 240/40/18 has a circumference of 80.25". 220/50/20=704 rotations/mile. 240/40/18=789 rotations/mile. Big difference! Definitely need to recalibrate the speedo.
So it will read your going faster then you really are?
 

mleach72

Well-Known Member
So it will read your going faster then you really are?
No, you will be going slower than speedo says. You won't be covering the same amount of ground with a smaller tire. The speedo recalibration is pretty easy. I don't remember the exact procedure, but it's in the service manual. You just need to drive a known distance that is exactly 2 miles.
 
Top