Wired my compression releases to my starter.

Nukeranger

Nukeranger
I actually like the idea of a toggle switch. That way I can use my left hand to pull the clutch lever when starting. I know one thing and that is if my battery is fully charged after it has been on a trickle charger, it spins over nicely. But, I don't always leave it on a trickle charger and probably don't get a full charge to and from work.
 

FrankBDPS

Well-Known Member
I disagree with that. There's no electrical connection between the throttle and the compression releases. Right out of the manual..."The CR's are on for only one second regardless of how long the START button is held down. This allows the engine to get past the compression stroke for easier starting, but dumps the CR's after one second. This conserves battery power and allows the starter to crank faster, reducing current draw."

Dennis

So according to the manual,wiring them to the starter selonoid circuit is actually making the problem worse. How much current can those two little things draw?
 

DRBarnhart

Insert title here...
So according to the manual,wiring them to the starter selonoid circuit is actually making the problem worse. How much current can those two little things draw?
How I read it is that they're saying that the CR's allow the engine to get past that first compression stroke easier which would reduce the current draw of the starter although turning off the CR's would also reduce the current some. Maybe someone should measure how much current the CR's use? ;)

Ideally, when you're cranking the engine, you don't want anything powered other than the starter and the ignition module. That's why the EHC turns off the headlight too.

Dennis
 

BWG56

Guru
He's saying DON'T hold the throttle open... at all.

A little tidbit out of the owner's manual, "IF THE THROTTLE IS OPENED WHILE ENGAGING THE STARTER, COMPRESSION WILL INCREASE DRAMATICALLY CAUSING THE STARTER TO KICK BACK, POSSIBLY PRODUCING A STARTER FAILURE."

Dennis
Your start drinking again? :D
I have been known to be wrong in the past, but I was damn close, I knew the throttle had something to do with the CR when starting, And that's exactly what is happening to Jim and I, the BAMM we talk about is breaking starters, its like one of the cylinders are under compression and the CR is not working when you hit start, it don't even crank when it does it, its like pulling the trigger on a gun, as soon as you hit start, BANG and the starter does not continue to spin, its done, run/start again to try and start
 

BWG56

Guru
Didn't you wire them to the green starter wire? Just remove the wires from there and attach to a toggle switch and the other side of the toggle to a switched fused hot to battery.
Well, there goes my toggle switch idea!
I think a toggle is the way to go
How I read it is that they're saying that the CR's allow the engine to get past that first compression stroke easier which would reduce the current draw of the starter although turning off the CR's would also reduce the current some. Maybe someone should measure how much current the CR's use? ;)

Ideally, when you're cranking the engine, you don't want anything powered other than the starter and the ignition module. That's why the EHC turns off the headlight too.

Dennis
My manual says they draw 30A only until the plunger is pulled in
 

DRBarnhart

Insert title here...
My manual says they draw 30A only until the plunger is pulled in
Where did you find that? I'm asking because the S&S manual tells you to use a 15A fuse when you wire the CR's into the starter wire. 30A seems pretty high but you never know...

Dennis
 

FrankBDPS

Well-Known Member
So do these things work like the ones on a chain saw do? Of course they are manually engaged but are some how closed when the compression comes up.

It would be nice if some one from S&S would post something on here about how they are supposed to operate and how they should be wired.

As far as the starters breaking housings it's hard to believe that is related to compression releases. Seems like an alignment problem.
 

Olde Man

Active Member
I think they are talking about the starter solenoid coil drawing 30A. Typically the current of a solenoid that is just energized (in rush current) will be 10 to 20 times as much as it is after it is pulled in. (sealed current)
 

BWG56

Guru
Well like I said before, I have been known to be wrong, and it looks like I was wrong again, a sparky I'm not
:oldlaugh:
 

Thors

Active Member
I also have my CR's tied directly to my start relay. Works great.

BadYellow, does the starter bang the second it engages? Or does the engine start to turn over a little then bang? If it bangs right away I doubt it had anything to do with the CR's. They really don't come into play until the engine has already started to turn at least a few degrees. Mine were both toast when I got the bike and during starting it would turn the engine 30, 40, 90 degrees or whatever then hit a compression stroke and really slow down. Would still start though. No bangs. Wondering if it may be your solenoid/plunger/pinion causing it.
 

badyellowvette

Active Member
He's saying DON'T hold the throttle open... at all.

A little tidbit out of the owner's manual, "IF THE THROTTLE IS OPENED WHILE ENGAGING THE STARTER, COMPRESSION WILL INCREASE DRAMATICALLY CAUSING THE STARTER TO KICK BACK, POSSIBLY PRODUCING A STARTER FAILURE."

Dennis
I guess the phrase "You can't build a lot of compression if the carb won't let the air in". Made it sound like open the throttle a little. I never hold it open when starting, just give it one twist and push the button.
 

badyellowvette

Active Member
I also have my CR's tied directly to my start relay. Works great.

BadYellow, does the starter bang the second it engages? Or does the engine start to turn over a little then bang? If it bangs right away I doubt it had anything to do with the CR's. They really don't come into play until the engine has already started to turn at least a few degrees. Mine were both toast when I got the bike and during starting it would turn the engine 30, 40, 90 degrees or whatever then hit a compression stroke and really slow down. Would still start though. No bangs. Wondering if it may be your solenoid/plunger/pinion causing it.
The starter bangs the second it engages, but will start fine if I try it again.
 

badyellowvette

Active Member
Would the primary chain tension have anything to do with the starter bang? I have it adjusted correctly but would like a automatic chain tensioner if someone could tell where to find one that fits.
 

Thors

Active Member
Would have to hear it to say but I wouldn't think so. I had my chain one click to loose for a bit and it never caused starter clunk. Clunks can come from weak battery, pinion/jackshaft/ring gear issues, etc... If it were mine I'd triple check battery connections including voltage pulldown during starting and if that checks out pull the starter and see how it looks.
 

badyellowvette

Active Member
Would have to hear it to say but I wouldn't think so. I had my chain one click to loose for a bit and it never caused starter clunk. Clunks can come from weak battery, pinion/jackshaft/ring gear issues, etc... If it were mine I'd triple check battery connections including voltage pulldown during starting and if that checks out pull the starter and see how it looks.
Curtis rebuilt the starter three months ago and with 6000 miles you would think it should be alright. I can see where using power to engage the CR's when starting might reduce power to the starter. I don't know what to do.
 

Coolbreezin

Active Member
Well, I got the dreaded starter clunk again yesterday ): Second time I started it for the day and the third time, had a big bang out of the starter. Didn't happen the rest of the day. As I got more miles from home I was getting paranoid about breaking the starter shaft again so I had my buddy push the starter button as I held down the CR's. It's such a pain to get stranded and have someone come rescue your broke down ass, I didn't want to take the chance.
I have been checking the CR's all the time to make sure their free, have lubed them as well. Now I don't know what to try next. I will see what happens today I guess.
This will sound dumb, but my wife recommended I roll my bike forward a few feet before hitting the start button. It worked 99% of the time. Start button crapped out after a while and I got a slam button from Curtis and Ive never had a jackshaft clunk.Get a slam button.
 

badyellowvette

Active Member
I do the roll the bike forward or backward thing sometimes not always. I just never know when I will get the starter bang. I don't see how a slam button could help me with the starter bang. if it would stop it I will get one.
 
Top