S&S 117 What's the Difference Between the 05 & 08 Models

[RRRUFF]

Looking for info here! What's the difference between the 05 & 08 or later S&S 117 engines. I know the valves, springs, rockers, & rocker boxes are different but what else? The reason I am asking is the level of valve train noise. I have two friends with 08's one carbureted the other fuel injected both of these engines have virtually no valve train noise. I have swaped my 05 TP rocker boxes, rockers, to S&S and had the heads reworked with larger valves, heavier springs & brought the compression ratio up. Swaped out my stock cam for and S&S 600 cam. So now I think my 117 is a full S&S. I had hoped that going to the full S&S set up would do two things, 1) quite the top end down and 2) correct the valve to rocker mis-alignment issue. The alignment I believe is corrected but I still have alot of valve train noise. I have adjusted the valves 4 turns and 3 turns and I run Mobile 1 full synthetic with an oil additive. My 05 sounds fine when I first start it up but after the engine gets hot it gets very noisy. I know these engine valve trains can be quited because I hear later models running as quite as a church mouse. So what's the difference in the 05/06's and the 08's and later engines?

 

[V]

I think the 05 may have had a smaller valve but not sure. Had a 05 Pit with TP boxes and now have a 08 ridgeback with S&S boxes and I don't remember there being much difference in the noise. I do know that ambeint temp make the noise louder. At 100 degrees air temp its louder than at 80 degrres air temp. Just sayin:zz2cents:

 

[RRRUFF]

I think the 05 may have had a smaller valve but not sure. Had a 05 Pit with TP boxes and now have a 08 ridgeback with S&S boxes and I don't remember there being much difference in the noise. I do know that ambeint temp make the noise louder. At 100 degrees air temp its louder than at 80 degrres air temp. Just sayin:zz2cents:

Yea, I changed to valves, went larger and went with S&S

 

[K9Anniv]

2005 was the first year for the 117" engine being standard on all BDM models, but those came out with "E"-carbs installed. I had an '05 Chopper with 117" and switched to a "G"-carb, and that engine seemed stronger with more "giddy-up" than the 117" & "G"-carb on my '09 K9. But..maybe it's the 300mm rear and longer, heavier frame on the K9 that's got something to do with it.
Sorry, not much help...just my thoughts & observations...

 

[V]

2005 was the first year for the 117" engine being standard on all BDM models. I wasn't aware of any difference in them since '05. I had an '05 Chopper with the 117", and that engine seemed stronger with more "giddy-up" than the 117" in my '09 K9...but maybe the 300 rear and longer, heavier frame on the K9's got something to do with it.

Sorry, not much help...just my thoughts & observations.

If you haven't made any mods to the 05 it has a .569 cam by Comp Cams where the newer models have a .546 S&S cam. Also the E carb on the 05 felt like it had more low RPM torque than the G carb that was installed on later models. I think 05 was the only year that the E carb was stock and it also included restrictors between the intake and the heads. BD offered a G carb upgrade kit for the 05 models.

 

[K9Anniv]

...the 05 it has a .569 cam by Comp Cams where the newer models have a .546 S&S cam....

V -> give me a quick "Cams for Dummies" course on these differences and how they would affect my engine performance.
Thanks brother!

 

[Dozer1]

Can't remember which member it was, nor the thread, but think it was Kaptn claimed that he had adjusted the BD tic completely away by tinkering/adjusting the pushrods. My 06 K9 was HORRIBLE with the TP rockerboxes. Replaced them wth S&S, though, and that alone made biiiig difference. Like most of the rest of us, however, I still have sum noise. :bang:

 

[Little-Boo]

My dog was very noisy as well. It got louder when I started using Mobil 1 20-50. I now use Straight 50 wt, removed my hearing aids and know I can't hear shit. :lol: On a serious note the 50 wt oil did help and it also runs cooler. Temps down here are usually in the 100's that is why I went to a thicker oil.

Carlos

 

[lee]

mine is noisier with Mobil 1 than it is with either Amsoil or Spectro. Changing oils might help

 

[john sachs]

You should have NO valvetrain noise with the S&S .600 cam.
Sounds like what you're describing is PISTON SLAP.Quiet when cool,gets noisy when hot.
John

 

[nine lives]

I have the same noise it's definitely not piston slap. I've been all over the rod adjustments, abeint temp makes a big difference. When temps here in PA were running in the mid to upper 90's, my valve train was much louder. Now with temps in the 80's a lot less noise. Next summer i'm ging to try a quart of 60 weight with my 20/50. I was going to pull the heads over the winter, now with the cooler temps, valve train noise is at what I consider at a reasonable level. Maybe no need to remove the heads cam lifters, time will tell.

 

[avdhunter]

Just bought my 09 and previous was an 04 with a 107. The 107 had NO top end noise but this 117 has alot of ticking in it...... go figure!

 

[V]

V -> give me a quick "Cams for Dummies" course on these differences and how they would affect my engine performance.
Thanks brother!

Well the .569 cam in 05 had more lift than the .546 thats there now. More lift, more air and fuel, more power. If you pull the top off of your front rocker box you should be able to see what type of springs you have. 08 has S&S single wound beehive springs rated for .585 lift. The .585 cam from S&S would be a good up grade or maybe a Woods cam. I'm runnin Woods W8 .590 lift. slightly more than what the springs are rated for (.005) but I don't beat it.

John Sachs can def explain this better than me.

 

[avdhunter]

Well the .569 cam in 05 had more lift than the .546 thats there now. More lift, more air and fuel, more power. If you pull the top off of your front rocker box you should be able to see what type of springs you have. 08 has S&S single wound beehive springs rated for .585 lift. The .585 cam from S&S would be a good up grade or maybe a Woods cam. I'm runnin Woods W8 .590 lift. slightly more than what the springs are rated for (.005) but I don't beat it.

John Sachs can def explain this better than me.

Awwww man.... so my 09 has a .546? That sux!!! Damn and that small of a cam is makin this much noise? Gonna have to go bigger for sure then!!!!

 

[RRRUFF]

You should have NO valvetrain noise with the S&S .600 cam.
Sounds like what you're describing is PISTON SLAP.Quiet when cool,gets noisy when hot.
John

John, is there any other ways to diagnose "Piston Slap"?

 

[john sachs]

John, is there any other ways to diagnose "Piston Slap"?

Unfortunately,the only way you can check it accurately,is to remove the pistons,and check the clearence piston to bore.Should be done with torque plates on the cylinders.
I've found some pretty far out.:bang:
John

 

[nine lives]

Guys, I really don't think were experiencing piston slap. Have had that on some of my other bikes in the past it's a different sound sort of sounds like a metalic slap, this noise comes from the boxes and is a tic. I know sometimes motor sounds get transfered through the motor, I had a tappet roller going bad and the sound seemed to be comming from the other side of the motor. John do you think that all these people would have bad tolerances? My bike right out of the box made some noise. As I said before, ambient temp. makes a big differance at least on my bike, also playing with the rod adjustment helps, find the sweet spot someware betweem three and four turns.

 

[john sachs]

I've done quite a few S&S 600 cam(gentle cam) motors,and never really run into valvetrain noise when the valves are adjusted properly.S&S pushrods...4 turns. With travel limiters...Tight,backoff (1/2 turn),so you can just turn them with your fingers.
I have however run into a lot of aftermarket big motors,with out of round cylinders,and way too much piston to wall clearence.Usually quiet on start up ,and progessively gets noisy as the engine warms up.
Piston slap does have a metallic tap to it,and is sometimes confused with valvetrain noise.
Have no idea how many people are hearing the noise.
John

 

[nine lives]

The adjustment you just mentioned is where Im at now. Still have some noise, start up seems pretty quiet get's a bit louder during warmup, then tappers off. Thermal expansion? The reason I'm familiar with the distinct sound of pistion slap is from 2strokes, no valvetrain noise involved. I'm nto saying you wrong, but in my case atleast, it's a small tic and not always constant. It's realy not bad, just there.

 

[john sachs]

Sh!t,my 2 stroke Kaw sounded like a 1 man parade.2 strokes ARE noisey...:bang:
It's not apples to apples.