Need some opinions (professional or otherwise)

[08mastiff]

Last week Alphadog and I set out for a 300 mile ride. I had my scoot all cleaned up and ready to go. I then decided to start it up the day before so I could get fuel for our trip. As soon as I turned the ignition key the starter automatically engaged turning the motor over. At the same time the horn started honking and every light on the motorcycle started flashing/blinking. I turned the ignition off immediately and everything stopped. I did this two more times with the same results. I disconnected the battery....connected it and the same problem continued. Just like many others with similar poblems I dreaded thinking about potentially installing a wireplus, pdm, new ehc, etc. The following morning I woke up early because I couldn't sleep and got to work on it chasing grounds or exposed wires.

I removed the speedometer and ignition coil but did not see anything that was broken, exposed, or disconnected. I then proceeded to remove the gas tank and right away I noticed an exposed ground wire that was comin off the backbone and down towards the ehc. When I say exposed I mean all the rubber or electrical tape used to wrap the wires together was worn away. Most likely due to the vibration from rubbing against the tank. The ground wire was fully in tact with no signs of wear on it. Just the protective insulation that holds the wires together was gone. I put the ignition coil back on turned the key and the motorcycle was performing its normal routine and appeared to be fine. I didn't bother messing with the ehc by cleaning the pins and putting dielectric grease on because I did it the previous year when I had some down time. I also check wires to the starter and other places.

Here's my big question. Is it possible that the wire was pressed against the tank so hard that it was somehow causing it to ground out, causing this problem. I don't see how it would be possible but I was hoping someone more smarter than me, with an electrical backround could answer this. Or is it possible that this was all coincidence and that I could potentially have further issues to come with the ehc gremlins.

BTW I wrapped the harness wires with industrial grade rubber electrical tape for added protection. Bikes been put back together and I was able to run it for the 300 mile trip. Man I love that bike. Looks, sounds, and runs like an angry beast.

 

[dingo]

Very possible ! Bad grounds and the EHC just do not mix.

 

[STRYKER]

I am positive someone on here will be able to answer that question for you.

 

[KaptinAmerika]

What do you mean by "Exposed ground wire"
Was it an input circuit to the EHC?
If you had an EHC input circuit grounded to your tank you can bet your ass its going to play hell with the EHC.

 

[KnotSo]

All worked well on that 300 miler?

 

[erldawg]

Very possible it was the exposed wire. Hopefully you moved things around so it does not happen again. Good find by the way!
Did you take any pics? Where ha headed? NC?

 

[08mastiff]

This first photo shows what I found when I took the tank off. If you look closely you can see the green wire showing through the protective wrap. Once again it was in tact with no signs of wear, just exposed and pressed against the gas tank. In the second photo you see all the wires after I stripped away all the protective rubber. You see the two green wires to the right. It was one of those two that were showing in the first photo. The wire in question goes from the top of the backbone, along the side, and into a hole on the bottom of the back bone. It then travels down through the inside of the backbone which leads to the battery area and ultimately connecting to the ehc. I did not check to see where exactly that specific wire connected to though.

To answer Earls question we went to the spring rally in Wildwood for the day. It was 300 miles round trip.....more for Jerry. Unfortunately there wasn't much going on so we left after dinner. The fall rally is the good one. And yes all worked well with the trip....she ran like a top.

 

[krkostecki]

I'm by no means an electrical expert, but if there was actually no exposed copper, this should not have been an issue. Glad it worked out for you but that's a head scratcher.

 

[firedog19]

If it was green it was not a ground. On a dc system the grounds are black.

 

[bearman]

I can’t see the pictures, but I can tell you this: the only for a wire to “ground out” is for it to have bare copper showing on it that touched an unpainted surface or another bare wire. So if you didn’t find any bare wire yet, keep looking.
For a 2007 the green wires that will be under the gas tank are the Speedo sensor signal, Neutral switch, Compression releases, and of course the one to the start button.
If I were you, I would take off that right control and check the start button and circuit board along with the wires that go through the handle bars.

 

[08mastiff]

Bearman thanks for your feedback as well. There were no bare copper wires touchingor exposed for that matter. I did take the throttle side control board off and it looked fine. Wires were in tact. I'm stumped with this whole thing. That's why I'm thinking the EHC gremlins may still be lurking.

Last year I had a separate issue on two occasions. I would turn the key and would get no response. As if there was no battery connected. I took the ignition coil off both times and reconnected it. The bike then fired right up. Not sure what caused this one either. Wondering if this maybe tied in somehow to my most recent issue described above.

 

[bearman]

The “no response” to turning the key issue that was mysteriously fixed by pulling and re-installing the coil, sounds like a key switch issue or a problem with the wires or connectors to the key switch. There is a connector under the gas tank that may not make good contact all the time. Since the key switch is mounted on the coil cover and you have to pull that to pull the coil, then you must have wiggled the key switch wires and temporarily fixed that issue. If it happens again reach under the coil cover and wiggle the wires to see if it helps. I have that 2 wire connector (along with the excess wire) to the key switch pulled and tie wrapped to the bottom of the air cleaner side of the frame so I can get to it without pulling the tank or coil cover.
As for your recent “self starting” issues, if there are no bare or shorted wires on the scooter, then you know it’s the EHC. I would keep looking, and pull all the wires out of the frame and bars and inspect very carefully. You can tie a heavy string to the wires before pulling them out, to make them easier to pull back in.

It would truly suck to replace the EHC (with anything) and then still have the same problem.

 

[Sven]

WATT is green? Does it tie into the horn, starter, vibrator, etc.? Then, yes, exposed wires touching ground could do this.

Why no short or blown fuse? Because of the strands touching: this acted more like a resistor. The other strands inline were helping distribute that heat. And short means hot, no resistance in between. Like tying a battery post to each other. It won't burn the bulb out is the resistor, but one wire will go up in smoke is Have Heat Will Travel.

So say green ties in to many jobbers. And when you found the exposed wire, moved it away from ground or that rub, I'll take door number 2, green wire partially shorted to ground, causing power to many jobbers using green as a (+). After all, a ground wire cannot short itself to ground. Make sense?

 

[08mastiff]

Thanks for all the feedback. I guess I will just to keep a close eye on it.

 

[erldawg]

Thanks for all the feedback. I guess I will just to keep a close eye on it.

You might try recrimping the connectors on the coil and ignition switch.

Now sounds like there may possibly be a bad connection.

 

[onaprwl]

Exactly what mine did when the ECH was going bad. Eventually it will not start and leave you stranded somewhere or just go out while you are riding. Save yourself a bunch of problems...CHANGE IT OUT NOW!