Ok here is what happened to my heads with tp rocker boxes, the valve guide was so loose the mechanic pulled the brass piece out with his fingers. Said it could have dropped the valve any second longer i was running the motor.
My first dumb question
- Thread starter Drdave427
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bruce
Active Member
So I have a 2006 K9 with TP boxes, they started leaking a little oil around 25,000 miles I ordered and replaced gaskets which was not that difficult and now have over 42,000 miles no issues plus I've always liked the look of them better than the stock s&s. I am pretty sure I do have a G carburetor so that may have something to do with me not having any issues like everyone else have been talking about.
From my understanding the problems were caused by the geometric alignment of the rocker arms, valves, and lifters, not the type of carb you had. But again who actually knows? These TP Rocker boxes were installed in the BDM factory not S&S factory. So chances are it was an operator rushing to assemble them and screwing them up.
mjsk9
Well-Known Member
I am one of those guys that did not have a problem with the TP Rocker Boxes. Actually I think there are a lot since you typically only hear of the problems as opposed to those that are fine. My 2006 K9 had 33,485 with no issues.
And thats what i was telling him not everyone had problems with them. Some did, some got big dog to change out their rocker boxes free of charge because BDM did do an exchange program cause there were a lot of issues. Some of us missed out on it.
Reddickracing
Well-Known Member
Aside from tp boxes, cam, lower compression, etc, S&S told me they also put smaller intake and exhaust valves in. My 06 K9 has a Comp Cams 569 emissions cam in it.
john sachs
Well-Known Member
I have worked/repaired a lot of heads for members on this forum over the years. As far as a S&S .585" or .600" cams go, Big Dog may have offered that as an option. I know either one was never regular production. I've also seen that most 117" EPA engines come with a "E" carb. ALL the Big Dog cylinders are longer than S&S regular production cylinders to meet EPA specs. I've cut down a bunch of them. Valve springs on the EPA engines are horrible, and if you're going to have the heads off replace them with a good aftermarket brand.
John
John
liferider
Looking forward to retirement
Now if only you had a big Mikuni 48 on it!!
JayRoy59
New Member
Thanks for all the info, but here's one for you. I have a 06 Mastiff that I believe to be all stock with the TP rocker boxes and a super g carb. I just had it dyno tuned and it pulled a 107 hp with 120 ftp of torque at the rear wheel. It also has around 15,000 miles on it. And the top end is quite. I have been thinking about taking it to the next level and doing a cam swap, sounds like I should plan on doing the rocker boxes at that time. I would have to think that I dont have a detuned epa setup running those kind of numbers, right? Or is it best to just leave it alone?
The EPA motors had super E carbs, taller jugs, .546 cam, restricter plate. Sounds to me that yours is one where they had left over TP rocker boxes and rather throw them away they put left over ones on some of the later 06 models and some 07's I think. The only difference between yours and a standard S&S motor is the rocker boxes, .546 cam, possibly taller jugs. If you do a compression test see if you are at 9.6:1, 10.5:1 or 10.8:1 that will tell what your quench is. That is why you are pulling those numbers, EPA motors where lucky to pull 90 hp. here is a post from 2007 from V-twin forum:
6 • Apr 16, 2007
This is not true for the new BD engines which we have dynoed and fixed over eighty of. Scotty is refering to the older 117, we are refering to the new emissions 117's with the 546 emission cam and the E carb which dyno's in at 92-94 torque and 80-85 hp. Go to S&S 117 thread about 6 pages back and read it.
Here is another:
8 • Apr 16, 2007
We have seen low numbers for the new EPA BD engines. As well they seem to be all over the board for power. The best we have seen is 109hp and 113 tq
And here is what someone did to thier bike to fix the lack of power:
11 • Apr 16, 2007
i opened up my bd 117 with the TP rockers and boxes and was surprised to see the piston so far down the hole. it was .055 down then add the .040 gasket and i had .095 quench. talk about leaving the power on the table! cut the jugs down to 015. shaved the heads .060 to get comp to 10.8-1 to run the 640 cam. port, springs, guides and valves with a dyna200i ign. xxx g carb no restrictors. also changed to s&s boxes and jims rollers and hl2t limiters. cost wasn't bad being i did the tear down and install but definitely a different bike. just wished i went to zero deck. lots of input from b woltz.
now if i could find a good performance 2 into 1 that fits a 250 tire RSD!
Your jugs may be the taller ones the only way you'll know is to measure them compare them to S&S numbers to see which you have. When I converted mine I ordered everything I needed from S&S to convert mine from EPA to S&S type motor not BDM built S&S, new heads, jugs, carb, cam, thunderheart ignition (not from S&S of course), removed the restrictor. I think in total work and all I had 3200 invested, but I was close to 125 hp and about 137 ft-lbs, but I was only running 10.5:1 at the time. Then I got greedy and wanted more power and that costed me big time, the shop I took it to really screwed things up and when I got the bike back I got 500 miles on the motor before it blew. So now I have a 124 CI on mine that was completely built by S&S in the speed shop before they closed it and I'm at 140 HP at the rear tire.
mleach72
Well-Known Member
There seems to be a lot of confusion on the subject, so I'm going to try to clarify things a bit. ALL bdm 117's are epa engines. Aside from a few changes, they are basically the same motor from 05-11. All have the exact same 9.6:1 cr. Yes, the '05's came with the e carb and restrictor plates, but with a swap to a g carb, it was basically the same as any other year. The 05 had slightly smaller valves than later years (1.90 vs. 1.94), but both were smaller than the 2" valve on a standard S&S crate motor. The TP rocker engines in 05 and 06 were built in-house at the BDM factory. They used the Comp Cams 569 cam. Although it wasn't a very good cam either, it had a little higher lift and the intake close was a better match to the 9.6:1 compression. The pre-assembled S&S motors came with the 546 cam.
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john sachs
Well-Known Member
All the 117" S&S EPA heads that I have done, and that's a ton, I've Never seen 1.900" intake valves. As far as dyno numbers go, you need to compare apples with apples. IE: SAE or STD factors, Brand of dyno used. Size of the rear tire, Air pressure in the rear tire, Belt or Chain tension, gear ratio, Air cleaner on or off, etc.
Left picture, someone didn't measure right. Right picture, 2 weeks solid on S&S Heads. 143" X 2 sets, 124", & 117".
John
Left picture, someone didn't measure right. Right picture, 2 weeks solid on S&S Heads. 143" X 2 sets, 124", & 117".
John
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Smoke67
Member
Mine is a late 06 K9. Got it in December. Less than 2k on it. Decided to replace the TP boxes. Pulled em off to see just how bad things were or were not. The wear on the exhaust valves was dead center. The intakes were a different story. I decided no more riding until this was fixed. Called Curtis and he set me up with the fixings and a new cam. Mine came with the G carb and good springs. I know there are folks that have ran many miles on the TPs but I would suggest pulling the boxes to at least look at the wear. Make your decision from there. That's all it took for me. I'm not risking it.
mleach72
Well-Known Member
I have always heard the '05's had 1.90 valves. Maybe that is not the case. If you have not seen them, then that must be false information then. It seemed to make sense though, as they really tried to strangle the 05's. That is good news!
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