My first dumb question
- Thread starter Drdave427
- Start date
back in the day of the EPA coming down on manufacturers, Big Dog had the bright idea they could save some money and make their numbers look better for the EPA by assembling the motors in house using parts that were "close". THAT DIDN'T WORK TOO WELL. the geometry of the pushrods to the guides was just bad enough to cause problems down the road, so to speak. some with TP boxes have run a long and happy life for some reason, but most have not.
by the way, that wasn't a dumb question, so you still need to come up with one.
by the way, that wasn't a dumb question, so you still need to come up with one.
It wasn't just 2005 bikes, my Mastiff is a 2006 and it had TP rocker boxes, and I'll post a picture tomorrow when I get home of what happens when they failed or come damn close to dropping a valve on a piston. But the rocker boxes weren't the only thing different on the motors. The TP rocker box motors were actually de-tuned from the factory. Smaller Cam, super E carb on some (like mine), I had actually called S&S and got them to send me everything needed to undo the de-tuning of the bike, and bring it to life. I was lucky I got new heads and all because the original heads were shot and you'll see why in the picture tomorrow.
ToolHandLuke
Member
Holy smokes. I'm following this one just for the photos! (Plus now I'm worried on how to tell which rocker boxes I've got!?)
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ToolHandLuke
Member
Well damn. Add it to the list :/ lol
Yep TP rocker boxes. Now you need to find out if its a de-tuned epa setup or just one where they had extra tp rocker boxes thrown onto a built S&S tuned motor. I could be wrong but epa motors ran a .545 cam or .520 something i think, most built S&S motors came with either the .600 cam, .585 or there was one other i think it was a .560. But check your carb see if its a g or e, i pretty sure the jugs were taller cause they had to cut mine down to get the compresson ratio right also. 9.6 to 1 is what the built S&S motors ran, de-tuned was less i believe.
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ToolHandLuke
Member
Looks like I'm rocking the S&S Super E Shorty
Damn....
Read this:
Adding power and longevity
I know, 2 words that don't often go together. I have some extra cash and want to give the Dog some love. What are some things that the stock motor needs to make it run longer and maybe get some more ponys?
www.bigdogbiker.com
Find the one i posted about putting my 2 cents in.
ToolHandLuke
Member
ToolHandLuke
Member
Yeah. Bummer. It sounds like a timebomb. Gah lee I hope like hell the other owner hasnt already thrashed this thing. There I was nice n cozy in my sheets, now Mastiff Rider64 has me back in the garage staring at this this thing chainsmoking!!!
Well not all of them were timebombs, i think mine was built on a monday morning or friday afternoon. Maybe yours wasbuilt on Wednesday? But some guys on here have 20000+ miles without a problem. I think around 8,000 is when mine started acting up, cant remember now. But there are several on herestill running tp rocker boxes and never had issues. Now whether or not they have the de-tuned motors idk. But your bikede-tuned may push 65 to 72 hp. The standard S&S built ones pushed 92 hp i believe. So honestly if no top end issues then thats the only difference.
And btw im sorry i have worried you. I just know my experiance with the TP issues, hopefully you wont have any.
ToolHandLuke
Member
Dont get me wrong. I absolutely value your input. Not so much worried. Just was already a little down about the other stuff I got going on this project. My only solace was thinking the engine and tranny were rock solid and I was just going to beat down some electrical gremlins
The engines are rock solid, its just the tp rocker boxes and components in them that had some misalignement issues. Like i said some guys on here swear they have had no issues at all. Then theres the far and few that had some issues and then you have me that had major issues, but some of mine were the workmanship by the mechanic i used also.
I had my motor redone with everything needed to fix the de-tune at one shop and it ran great, i got power hungry after feeling the increase and took it to another shop and dropped major money into a motor that lasted 500 miles. Sent that motor to S&S to find out what happened and their finding was workmanship. Dropped another great deal of money for a new bigger motor a 124 CI built up and found out then anything over 120 hp and our transmission main shaft cant handle the power. So had to drop more money to upgrade transmission and have a primary belt drive on it just to handle the hp the motor makes. But there are enough ppl on this forum that youll never go thru any issue alone. We all will help, sell or swap parts, donna and derrik, captain america on here, mr wright and many more will be very useful friends to get new and custom made parts. So just know no matter what issues you have or will have theres always going to be help here for you. So no worries.
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ToolHandLuke
Member
I noticed on the s&as website they dont have a 117 motor option. Closest I found was 111 and 124. I'm trying to research and learn but I never was a gear head. Even working as a tech I was always assigned hydraulic or electrical jobs so never had the opportunity to lear...until now!!
S&S stopped making the 117 when Big Dog closed back in 2011 or 2012, cant remember now. But they reopened under new ownership I think it was 2015? The 117 was a motor made just for Big Dog by S&S.
Well compared to the crate motor yes they were detuned. But the 117's that were built for big dog wasn't a crate motor it was a production motor by S&S, sent to Big dog, and some in 2005 and 2006 were modified or assembled by Big Dog at the factory with TP rocker boxes, that were even weaker than the standard 117 that was ordered by big dog. How many 117's you seen come out the door with a Super E carb on it? ToolHandLuke posted a picture of his and I know mine did. Big Dog S&S 117 motors were detuned compared to a crate motor, but the EPA TP Rocker box motors were even more detuned than those motors. And I can't remember if it was earlier in this thread or another one but there was a guy on here state that his Big Dog came with a .600 cam from the factory and I'm sure other ppl will say the same, BDM did modify these engines at the factory, not sure they made crate motors there but special orders from dealerships being made, cam upgrades, diamond cut jugs and heads, business was booming during 2005 to 2008, and I'm sure if someone wanted a customization they could get it for a price., even a crate motor.
Sure hope you've got cleaning and polishing on your to do list.
Well maybe if you come off some of that mothers billet polish he and i could. Lol