How do you measure a cam?

[jwoolf]

Hey, It's cool to see the stats on the S&S 600. It's actually looks like it's a pretty aggressive cam. Seems to be more so than the Screaming eagle cam listed a couple below it. LOL

I may drop the 600 in mine and change out the springs for now and when I get ready to do the top end, I'll go with all new rockers etc when I flow the heads out etc.

Are the S&S cams the only options we have. ( pardon my ignorance on products ) LOL

 

[jwoolf]

I just wish I were able to see the degree measurement for the intake closing on the S&S 600 with the intake valve at .053. I wonder how much less than the 55 degress it would actually be?

 

[Raywood]

Are the S&S cams the only options we have.

I know one member here has a Redshift cam in his bike. Can't remember who it is.
But, besides S&S you have Crane and Andrews as the most popular I think.
I can't remember which mail order catalog it is but one of them has a pretty good listing of all the cams and there specs. I think it was V-Twin but could have been Drag Specialties or Custom Chrome.
Maybe Nelson (WBCycles) has them.

Later,
Ray

 

[jwoolf]

Sweet!!! I'm going to learn myself a little more on the subject before I pull the trigger. I want to have an idea of every spec and what it will affect before I find the right fit.

 

[jwoolf]

Already seems like I'm looking for around 35 degrees ABDC to .50 tappet lift and, I'm not sure of the overlap yet but, it'll most likely be between 40-60 degrees but, I haven't looked at that one enough yet.

This is a great thread by the way.

 

[V]

Hey Jwolf Comp Cams also has higher lift cams available as well and some decent people to talk to. Some with the same lift as the S&S but differnet duration and overlap. You can also check the Zippers website as they have diiferent manufactuers as well and most of theirs is for higher than stock performance. The original 600 by S&S was for the 10.2/1, 117 cu in aniversory engine. As noted this engine came with 10.2 comp (Vs. our 9.6) The original also had different valve springs and larger valves.

A lot of us have thrown in the 600 cam (I did) and springs and left the other items the same, "valve size and compression". I heard good things about Comps 585 lift cam #5015 with our stock springs and compression.

Just my .02


Thanks V.

 

[Coolbreeze]

Hey Guys, Why all the intrest in the overlap? This whole subject is being way over thought. The 2 things to pay attention too is lift and duration. Duration more than lift. Duration will tell you were in the RPM range it kicks in.

From 240- 255 duration will be a good wide range RPM cam 255 and up the power will kick in @ higher RPM's.

Head Quarters Cams & Woods cams are great.

I put a HQ-0023 cam, 600 intake and 530 exh. in a 04 Mastiff 117ci, and it produces 117 @ the rear wheel. NO head work and meanmother pipes.

 

[jwoolf]

Cool! I'll most likely drop something in it but, wait to do the hot cam till I need to do a top end then, I'll do everything. For now I may just do the cam, springs and change the ignition and bolt on the 45 dcoe weber I got from Sul! LOL

 

[jwoolf]

Hey Guys, Why all the intrest in the overlap? This whole subject is being way over thought. The 2 things to pay attention too is lift and duration. Duration more than lift. Duration will tell you were in the RPM range it kicks in.

From 240- 255 duration will be a good wide range RPM cam 255 and up the power will kick in @ higher RPM's.

Head Quarters Cams & Woods cams are great.

I put a HQ-0023 cam, 600 intake and 530 exh. in a 04 Mastiff 117ci, and it produces 117 @ the rear wheel. NO head work and meanmother pipes.

This is the explanation I got on overlap:

The next point on the graph is the intake opening. This begins the overlap phase, which is very critical to vacuum, throttle response, emissions and especially, gas mileage. The amount of overlap, or the area between the intake opening and the exhaust closing, and where it occurs, is one of the most critical points in the engine cycle. If the intake valve opens too early, it will push the new charge into the intake manifold. If it occurs too late, it will lean out the cylinder and greatly hinder the performance of the engine. If the exhaust valve closes too early it will trap some of the spent gases in the combustion chamber, and if it closes too late it will over-scavenge the chamber; taking out too much of the charge, again creating an artificially lean condition. If the overlap phase occurs too early, it will create an overly rich condition in the exhaust port, severely hurting the gas mileage. So, as you can see, everything about overlap is critical to the performance of the engine.

I'm just putting stuff I found somewhere else, I'm still trying to learn this stuff myself.

 

[Gas Man]

Gas Man - I found this - I think this was to measure a car cam but presumably the principles are the same

I don't have a clue what he is talking about but you might - hope it helps


Mike the cam lobe from top of point to heel (up and down), then mike it 90 degrees from that (sideways). Subtract the small dimension from the large, and multiply that figure by the rocker arm ratio. That will give you gross valve lift. You'll have to set the camshaft up in a block with a degree wheel to determine duration

Wow this took a turn...

I was looking for a way to verify the size of the stock cam short of calling BDM.

 

[P8RIOT]

Took some pics of the S&S 600 Cam tonight - here's what it looks like:

In this view you can see the 600 stamped into the first lobe:

This view shows the relative angles of the lobes:

This is the opposite end:

I don't know if that helped anyone, but we all like pics. :up:

 

[Gas Man]

But a stock cam out of a big dog doesn't have those stampings... only some numbers on gear... but no S&S numbers...

 

[V]

Gas My 05 had a Comp Cam so the numbers on it had nothing to do with S&S. It was a .569 Comp Cam. I don't know whats in 06 or 07 but I thought they had dropped to a .521 or something close. Can somebody confirm?




Thanks V.

 

[lee]

does anybody know the stock mild cam S&S put in their 117s when they build them? the original owner of my bike swapped out the cam BDM use for that one - only info I had was the mild S&S cam S&S use in their 117s

 

[V]

Looking at a S&S dealer catalog showed the 585 in the 111 cu in, 600 in the 117 cu in and 640 in the 124 cu in. Thats on motors from S&S not neccessarily on motors constructed by bike builders.

Lee. My 05 117 came with a comp cam (not S&S) with .569 lift. This was considered the EPA cam


Over and out V.

 

[lee]

thanks Gents - maybe I got a 600 then - is it easy to get to it to check?

 

[lee]

thanks Sul

 

[woodysan]

:flag: I hope I can put a little light on this subject without being ridiculed too harshly. I own my sons 2001 Prosport with TP 107",Andy with advice from our cycle shop/ tuner in Ohio put a Leineweber .540 lift cam in bike, basically he wanted mid range power and it pulls from about 2700 rpm to 4800 rpm like a gorilla,the duration is .293 so it has a long over lap. My only comment is you need to match cams,heads and pipes to get what you are looking for, low to mid or mid to high? The bike dyno was 103.8 hp 115.9 tq W. Just another OLD Dog.

 

[Vegas]

Looking at a S&S dealer catalog showed the 585 in the 111 cu in, 600 in the 117 cu in and 640 in the 124 cu in. Thats on motors from S&S not neccessarily on motors constructed by bike builders.

Lee. My 05 117 came with a comp cam (not S&S) with .569 lift. This was considered the EPA cam


Over and out V.

I repped you buddy since us losers have to stick together and you are absolutely correct. Overlap is very important. It affects your low rpm drivability. That is why they sell different Lobe Angle camshafts. For drag racing or high rpm applications a closer lobe seperation is normally used, say 108 degrees of lobe seperation. If you want a camshaft with the same duration but cleans up faster a 112 or 114 maybe used especially with a street application that needs to idle reliably and had some low end snort.

 

[V]

Sul I don't have a copy of the catalog its like a dealer only thing. I don't know why though it just has specs and part#'s

Swift motorcycles also have the 117 engine and I beleive a 3 year warranty, they are listed at 9.7 compression and they come stock with the S&S IST igntion system (I think thats why 3 year warranty) and I believe they have the taller cylinders like big dog. Ironhorse was using stock height cylinders and their 117 was rated at 10.2-1.

When looking thru this catalog I also noticed that the BD intake manifold is actually the part# listed for a stock S&S 124 because we have taller cyclinders.

Their is also a build up in American Iron on a Big Bear Engine by S&S and it is noted that taller than stock cylinders were used to lower compression.

I get this stuff from a friends shop, he is a dealer for AIH, Big Bear, Swift and they just took on Big Dog with the closing of the Richmond Va. shop. I work there some, go to shows and get to ride lots of different bikes

Hell I was so happy to have a BD dealer 15 miles away I ordered an 08 Ridgeback

Drinkin away V.