NobleMastiff
Member
Already did it man....One of the first checks I did.
Electrical problems
- Thread starter NobleMastiff
- Start date
BigDogBro1
Made in the USA
Great next thing to test out Eric. Maybe the starter is locked up?
NobleMastiff
Member
It turns over fine with a direct jump from battery........everything is pointing to the EHC !
Agree ??
Agree ??
from what you describe yeah.. have you checked the hand control? before replacing anything I'd 1st check voltage to the starter solenoid with the green wire hooked up.. check to see that the ehc is sending voltage to the solenoid 12+ volts..do all the other functions work on the hand controls? hay a thought the last member that had a similar issue had a alarm system installed on his bike killing the starter system.. he ad the alarm activated.. just checking..
BigDogBro1
Made in the USA
How in the hell is he getting only 3 volts across the battery +/- without any smoke?
What's dropping 9.8 volts in the system at 400CCA?
We're missing something.
Eric asked:
"I'd 1st check voltage to the starter solenoid with the green wire hooked up.. check to see that the ehc is sending voltage to the solenoid 12+ volts.."
Put the meter RED probe on the connected GREEN solenoid wire and the meter BLACK probe on the battery (-) terminal.
As a test:
Connect the GREEN solenoid wire to a 12v cheap $3 30Amp fog light relay coil and the other side of the coil to GND. Push the start button and see if the relay closes and opens with start button. If it does then connect one side of the relays N.O. contact to 12v battery (+) and the other side to the starter solenoid for a try.
Can you jumper the starter and get the bike actually running? If yes, then does everything else work well.
What's dropping 9.8 volts in the system at 400CCA?
We're missing something.
Eric asked:
"I'd 1st check voltage to the starter solenoid with the green wire hooked up.. check to see that the ehc is sending voltage to the solenoid 12+ volts.."
Put the meter RED probe on the connected GREEN solenoid wire and the meter BLACK probe on the battery (-) terminal.
As a test:
Connect the GREEN solenoid wire to a 12v cheap $3 30Amp fog light relay coil and the other side of the coil to GND. Push the start button and see if the relay closes and opens with start button. If it does then connect one side of the relays N.O. contact to 12v battery (+) and the other side to the starter solenoid for a try.
Can you jumper the starter and get the bike actually running? If yes, then does everything else work well.
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yep I agree... should be a dead short.. do ya think the volt meter is faulty??
BigDogBro1
Made in the USA
What...Oh yea..Ah Don't know about the voltmeter but that butt video is sure SMOKIN!!!
:lol:
Who knows about the DVM. Just have to rely on what we get here. Can't get hands on.
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:roll::roll::roll: did it get your attention or what....What...Oh yea..Ah Don't know about the voltmeter but that butt video is sure SMOKIN!!!
:lol:
BigDogBro1
Made in the USA
Put a pushbutton solenoid on it and go riding!!!
:roll:
:lol::loony:
NobleMastiff
Member
C'mon boys...Yes my DVM works just fine and OBVIOUSLY something is pulling the battery voltage down to the 3 volts as I mentioned earlier. Does anyone out there know the EXACT workings of the EHC. After allit is a logic controller for anyone who understands how they work. I do have a a right turn signal that's not working from the pcb board on the controls. And yes it's the same one that the start signal originates from. OF course my local dealer can't seem to get his hands on one. I thinking a shorted output relay (triac/diac) or whatever BDM decided to use in this proprietary piece of crap !! I'll keep chugging along till I get it. Thanks anyway.
your ehc is a micro processor.. & yeah I know someone who knows all about them.. inside & out.. but he is no longer on this site... e-mail me & I can hook you up with him..
eric.70@comcast.net
eric.70@comcast.net
BigDogBro1
Made in the USA
Eric,
Let us know what your buddy says after talking with this guy about his Diac/Triac problem.
Thanks...
Let us know what your buddy says after talking with this guy about his Diac/Triac problem.
Thanks...
he never responded.. you know who I'm talking about right.. the goo roo of bdm electrical issues.. if you e-mail me I can get ya in contact with him...
BigDogBro1
Made in the USA
Was just interested because I heard Las Vegas is looking for a new act than can make 10 volts and 400 Cold Cranking Amps disapear without any smoke or mirrors.
Hope he gets it back on the road without a major expense...
Hope he gets it back on the road without a major expense...
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this might help... a friend sent this to me..
But back to NobleMastiffs problem!
1)You're very correct when you say that it's normal for the starter trigger (green) wire to have 8 to 9 vdc on it when NOT in use.
It sounds like a problems that can ONLY these few possibilities!
a) EHC power connections at the battery are bad and in need of being cleaned up or re-crimped. "Very Possible"
b) A bad connection within the "Serial Ports" of the EHC. "Very Possible" Disconnect the EHC from the battery. CAREFULLY disconnect the serial ports from the EHC. Apply "Electrical Contact Cleaner" spray until pins and pin receivers (Holes) are clean. Allow to thoroughly dry. Apply a liberal coating of "Dielectric Grease" to pin receivers (Holes). CAREFULLY reconnect the "Serial Ports" to the EHC. DO NOT OVER TORQUE SCREWS! Reconnect EHC to Battery.
c) Starter has a possible internal short. "Very Possible" Happens Frequently with all kinds of different symptoms!
and last...
d) The EHC "has" lost the starting circuit. "Very Unlikely, due to the EHCs built in protection circuitry"!
But "IF" the EHC has gone south, SORRY!
Go WP!
Hope this helps!
dead
Copy and paste it Eric!
hope this helps.. I never got a response.. so eather you got it fixed or quit ..
But back to NobleMastiffs problem!
1)You're very correct when you say that it's normal for the starter trigger (green) wire to have 8 to 9 vdc on it when NOT in use.
It sounds like a problems that can ONLY these few possibilities!
a) EHC power connections at the battery are bad and in need of being cleaned up or re-crimped. "Very Possible"
b) A bad connection within the "Serial Ports" of the EHC. "Very Possible" Disconnect the EHC from the battery. CAREFULLY disconnect the serial ports from the EHC. Apply "Electrical Contact Cleaner" spray until pins and pin receivers (Holes) are clean. Allow to thoroughly dry. Apply a liberal coating of "Dielectric Grease" to pin receivers (Holes). CAREFULLY reconnect the "Serial Ports" to the EHC. DO NOT OVER TORQUE SCREWS! Reconnect EHC to Battery.
c) Starter has a possible internal short. "Very Possible" Happens Frequently with all kinds of different symptoms!
and last...
d) The EHC "has" lost the starting circuit. "Very Unlikely, due to the EHCs built in protection circuitry"!
But "IF" the EHC has gone south, SORRY!
Go WP!
Hope this helps!
dead
Copy and paste it Eric!
hope this helps.. I never got a response.. so eather you got it fixed or quit ..
BigDogBro1
Made in the USA
On the starter solenoid wire EHC box schematic it shows a resettable fuse a possible PTC (positive temp coefficient thermistor). Don't know how connecting this green solenoid wire up would cause the battery to drop voltage to 3 volts during a (starting attempt?). Unless the EHC is fried inside the module and causing a massive voltage drop of 9 volts, high current and no heat or smoke.
Here's my point...don't nit pick it!
Under normal conditions it takes a good battery rated at 300 to 400CCA at possibly 100+ amps of surge current to turn over a V-twin engine. During that starter cranking time the battery can drop around 3 volts to about 9 volts normally across the battery and all that power (3 volts/100+ amps) is released as heat in the starter motor (a massive low resistive wire wound RESISTOR) and a small bit in the solenoid. Now imagine that muliplied by 3 times to get your measured 3 volts at the battery. That's 9 volts battery drop at hundreds of amps of current. I think I could do some welding with those numbers. So something other than the starter motor/solenoid is absorbing 9v/250+ amps of energy and yet there seems to be no burnning, smoking or fire.
A BAD battery or a starter or solenoid with shorted windings would best explain it...but you say the battery checks out okay and the starter is fine.
NobleMastif did say:
"No tripping of the breaker. Something going to ground and taking the battery out. What's weird is, the battery will come back after waiting for some time! When I disconnect the starter the comp. relief works fine (hear them open when I hit the switch. Reconnect the starter and ...bam ! No battery. "
"Reconnect the starter <Q> and ...bam ! No battery." <Q> Are you pressing the START button here?
A battery has no internal resettable fuse component it's just an energy storage device that remains unchanged until something drains power from it for a short duration. When the drain is removed from a GOOD battery it immeadiately returns back to CLOSE it's nomimal static voltage level. A sulfated battery, shorted cells or a poor condition battery will react strangely.
What does the battery voltage measure at during a start cranking when you remove the GREEN solenoid wire and bypass jump the starter solenoid to the battery+?
.........
Could be an EHC internal resettable fuse delay, but don't know how it's possible to pull down a GOOD battery like that long term without any catastrophic harness or EHC module damage.
Sorry but we're missing something here and can't explain it without being there. Something got lost in the translation.
Here's my point...don't nit pick it!
Under normal conditions it takes a good battery rated at 300 to 400CCA at possibly 100+ amps of surge current to turn over a V-twin engine. During that starter cranking time the battery can drop around 3 volts to about 9 volts normally across the battery and all that power (3 volts/100+ amps) is released as heat in the starter motor (a massive low resistive wire wound RESISTOR) and a small bit in the solenoid. Now imagine that muliplied by 3 times to get your measured 3 volts at the battery. That's 9 volts battery drop at hundreds of amps of current. I think I could do some welding with those numbers. So something other than the starter motor/solenoid is absorbing 9v/250+ amps of energy and yet there seems to be no burnning, smoking or fire.
A BAD battery or a starter or solenoid with shorted windings would best explain it...but you say the battery checks out okay and the starter is fine.
NobleMastif did say:
"No tripping of the breaker. Something going to ground and taking the battery out. What's weird is, the battery will come back after waiting for some time! When I disconnect the starter the comp. relief works fine (hear them open when I hit the switch. Reconnect the starter and ...bam ! No battery. "
"Reconnect the starter <Q> and ...bam ! No battery." <Q> Are you pressing the START button here?
A battery has no internal resettable fuse component it's just an energy storage device that remains unchanged until something drains power from it for a short duration. When the drain is removed from a GOOD battery it immeadiately returns back to CLOSE it's nomimal static voltage level. A sulfated battery, shorted cells or a poor condition battery will react strangely.
What does the battery voltage measure at during a start cranking when you remove the GREEN solenoid wire and bypass jump the starter solenoid to the battery+?
.........
Could be an EHC internal resettable fuse delay, but don't know how it's possible to pull down a GOOD battery like that long term without any catastrophic harness or EHC module damage.
Sorry but we're missing something here and can't explain it without being there. Something got lost in the translation.
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DRBarnhart
Insert title here...
What's the battery voltage when you do that?
Knowing the inner workings of the EHC won't help you troubleshoot since you can't repair it anyway. It's as simple as knowing if you have the proper inputs to the EHC and if you have the right outputs from the EHC, in this case, 12 VDC to the green solenoid wire. If you get the right voltage on that wire when press the START button then the battery voltage drops it seems your problem is the starter. I know you said it turns over when you jump it directly but that doesn't mean there aren't some shorted windings in the starter that are causing it to draw too much current...
Dennis
NobleMastiff
Member
Great ideas "Bro". I took a break last night and dropped a couple cans of my favorite brew to unwind with the mrs. I'm hot on it right now and I'll drop a line to all that's been helping me through this. Thanks everyone !