EEE 101 The Skeleton Of The EFI

[Sven]

Well I get electronics

Up to a point. Or you would have zipped right thru the alpha. It's now up to a point where I do not know the next step of this, being you'd have to know the motherboard and build it from scratch, program it, etc. I'm not there and I'm sure you're not either.

If this makes sense to you abstract wise, then what I'm saying says the same simple thing and you're missing a step.
555 Timer, right? 3 basic moves: Threshold-Trigger-Discharge. You know this basic hard part I'm sure.
The human heart: One side fills up = Threshold. The brain for argument sake =Triggers. The other side of the heart = Discharges.
The Toilet: Back of the tank is the = Threshold. Handle is the = Trigger. Sewer down the hole = Discharge.

I'm handcuffed yes or makes no sense to the theories. Did that make sense about nature's movements? I had to walk the black box backwards. I had to lift the hood on the processor and study the basic moves of the hard parts. How come it only works one way and you don't see it?

Secondly, you don't need to get me there.

The fuck I don't LOL Just having fun, Mike. No offense whatsoever. It's more a battle of your reality of how E works vs how you read how it works. I spot right off how it does not work. Why is that?

But I standby that VOES is a SWITCH.

I stand by the infancy of the very first analog sensor that has not changed one bit. Same science applies. I'll expand on a computer bike's backup intervention when suck drops out:
If the inlet air pressure sensor fails (the signal Pv is out of the useable range, wiring short or open), the ECU sets the DFI in the a-N method.

Throttle position sensor: same as above, but now it says... locks ignition timing into the D-J method at closed throttle position.

Method:
a-N means Alpha-Numeric. This takes care of mid to WOT.
D-J means Digital-Jetronics. This addresses the idle to low range.

At the time of VOES, there was the TPS on the Big-4 bikes and the evolution kept adding telemetry up to what I ride now. So when the analog signal drops, what mathematical formula would you use as a base for processing? the 1 atm = 14.7 psi.

VOES:
Book's abstract ~ Basically, the system gives a spark near TDC for starting, and at rpm's and loads above this gives a spark advance that varies between 10° and 55°. Does varies read as an on off switch, as in, either it switches to 10 or switches to 55 and only those numbers, or does varies sound linear for a processor to know? It says in the book it's a switch under loads, yes.

Key off, what does the VOES read right now? One atmosphere against that silicone wafer. So does it go on off or does it show how much speed the pull was? You are going to still suck the same volume only quicker is the speed event. When that valve closes, it's a constant 14.7 in that chamber and no more. Thus the alpha number for fuel injection backup methods.

TPS and vac take care of their assigned loads. That's the evolution. But right now VOES is on its own flip flip, right? Has to be one designated rpm wave length that flips over to full 55. The VOES is so bouncing on and off when the other 3 cycles are going on, we use that one cylinder, it sits back at 0, right? Sure did look like it on off'd. But did it?

So what you're saying is it goes on off at every suck or stays at a set curve for that processed speed event come around? You said it's and on off switch like the book's abstract said, and I say it is being pulled to a value and 0 pressure is on it and waiting for... you finish the on off walk and how you think the V works.

First I want to see you get away with the 3 other strokes as the wafer sits @ 14.7. Gotta know it to walk it. And we are still at the VOES in full loop mode. No wire off yet.

We linear with analog input with the varies, or on off like 10 to 55 in a snap?

To me, it's a bit of a hack for when there is not a vacuum advance setup.

 

[Sven]

Mike, how about the eye to eye about the 555 timer's move to both heart and toilet moves. Do they match moves yes or no? I want to know if someone else agrees with the absolute moves you are handcuffed to and have to follow that because you can't get out of the 60hz cycle, mother atmosphere, magnetism, oh, the main 3 variables for the processor to follow, right?

And you know why you brought up the url with the title, 'lets talk about how confusing the VOES is?.' Well, I'm on the confusing side, not some on off switch side like the books very short abstract. It's not going to talk about how detailed the system is.

How come I agree with you about it being an on/off switch as described, but you do not see the processor working in a linear moves of on off, not some dark room and the switch instantly brightens the room, is how I think you see it, no? I'm sure you see the digital move and I'm pointing out the analog move before it digits with either the hose off or either wire. It's more a rheostat processing up to off and processing down to flip on. Flipflop move, right?

How else does the processor work but with on-off moves is the only move in that unit. If you knew the fuel injection system theory vs a check engine light, you'd roll all over me with theory. But it's not coming but an excuse.

 

[Sven]

Again Mike, I respect your opinion right or wrong. This is so my camp side can follow my theories so as to follow WATT little abstract is said in the book. It's enough.

So the diagnosing goes something like this: Guy has a meter problem with the bike. When something on the meter flashes on and off, it's showing it is setting a code to a certain sensor. So his tach was bouncing and his water temp sensor began flashing. Kind of hard to explain how the tach and water bar and nothing else.

Either way, there was the water temp that troubled me. I wired the bike up so I could hack into 9 sensors that kept the bike running as per books abstract, and what it says it will do under a 'backup/fail-safe/CEL/limp mode/Huston we have a problem = No Analog Signal Input.

So my first try was wire/connector upsetting and see if it was a loose wire or something? Next was a 15yr old bike with maybe green oxy on the copper female/male connector pins? Try a few pushes in and pushes out to scrub into some new metal contacts. I don't think he did with the back and forth posts.

Okay, open to page meter and read the ohm resistance. Meanwhile, he's doing his own thing and is more studying the book pages. At this point he's not going to both pins behind the meter and read the ohm resistance in the book to see if the meter was the problem?

Another day stalled and as we go back and forth reading the book pages making you move to the next variable, my getting around to pulling the water temp sensor out of the loop, it more went super-Limp! Bucked like crazy with the ignition not cooperating to having the fan on all the time. The backup code section reads at the water sensor, 'we set the 80°C backup and set the fan on.'

I told him to go out and test ride the bike and just see how it performs? He came back saying he sent the bike in the barn wet. That got me thinking. So I asked if he turned the key on does the fan come on? No. Okay, phantom code? We are going back and forth, me saying meter and he saying the ECU.

Then all of a sudden it hit me. I walked out of the sensor, up the wire, into the processor, out the wire, into the meter, begin to flash> NOT! The fan did not turn on with key = No code. That made me walk the analog up to the ECU. It had no codes. Segway back a day or two, I said, press mode and trip buttons together. What does the liquid display say number wise? Nothing comes up. This was before the light bulb in the brain. So I was to the point of saying to take a flat anything across both buttons to push them down together, but the hindsight didn't kick in at those few back and forth posts.

Meanwhile, I'm waiting for something so fast to find out, I go out and read both ohm numbers at the meter and ECU. The check at both pins at the meter came in the middle of its spec range, or the blueprint number let's say. I knew I had some resistance measuring, hearing about so many feet is some formula. Well, I wasn't going to pull the ECU out that took too long to do, so I ohm'd the two wires down to the ECU from the meter's connector end, and that too came into its spec range. Killed two birds.

No, I killed 3 birds. The ohm read is at each jobber, are the resistance numbers. So back to the troubletree if you follow me:

1. Connector not connected: Can't be this because both are connected.
2. Wire out of connector: Technically, no.
3. Signal out of range/short/open. Can't be the blueprint, can't be a direct short, is thought an Open.

As we go back and forth and finally he pulls the seat off, he sees the CAN Com Lo wire cut clean off, and just a little bit off the end of the pinned side to resolder. Before the seat pull, I said that you could test the meter at the CAN lines, because I have both your numbers to match or be close, still within spec.

And then the subject turned to solder and the CAN interference. And I came back and said, my female pins into the meter are two feet long each [off an old wire harness] and that should have changed the reading. So I said if anything, don't drop a ball of a Popeye arm with the dab of lead. He came back with a clean shrink line over the mend; meter cleared when tested.

So I got a shit load out of a Master Class happening:
1. The 3 birds with one ohmmeter.
a. Meter ~ That was a direct shot at the meter. I now enter the loop.
b. Why would I follow book, pull the ECU when I can go thru the wire harness and now I find a possible open in either wire.
c. I kill both birds with wires and now I spec the ECU in its place and it too specs out. Time saved.

2. The Analog to Digital:
a. Only by walking backwards in the reverse engineering could I pull the water code and feel that nasty limp.
b. I walked the basics. I walked out of the temp sensor in analog, up the wire, into the processor, out of the wire, up to the meter and no code, but a blink none the less.
c. The clue of no backup code. It made so much sense to me, once I connected the nasty to the meter to the fan and Master Class is not over.

3. The Cause & Effect:
a. 'I haven't touched this bike in 15yrs, except when I installed a powercommander.'
b. The wire was so clean at the break, no rat was chewing on just one wire? No dike is going to sheer that off without leaving the plastic to curl over. Then he mentions how stiff the wire was and it was the only wire with a loop being alone and not packed down with the others. I said 15yrs of vibration like a filament bulb vibrating and that break somewhere.
c. Then he came up with it. Seemed the only explanation to me. Youtube says you might like this, so I went from watch repair to seeing gold and silver being worked and all that annealing. So I said the real hindsight was to take a lighter to the loop and work the molecules back in play so another 15yrs would go by.... Too Late!

Master Class over: detecting the difference between analog and digital, the CAN's node effect, and a wire is just a wire, no interference at the ohm read, or meter getting a penalty blink, nor a needle reading being off.

 

[Sven]

Well first I'd really like to know why you are Speaking about EFI and VOES together.

The theory of analog to digital at the diagnostic level. It's a walk up to any computer bike and know there are no difference between knowing a sensor runs under analog, and is a problem in the loop when the digit is set by those 3 variables at the connectors, their jobbers and wires.

... since at least with most of the EFI Systems I know there is NO VOES installed!

As in, the telemetry turns obsolete doing the same exact handcuffing. Points = On or off. Binary = Analogs or not.

My 08 K-9 BDM EFI for example, does not have a VOES, it uses a MAP SENSOR.

And does what? Mass Air Pressure... Pressure! Back to the Alpha. Again, no offense, you just don't see it as you bring up the MAP.

Hidden steps, Mike. That are not and are out in the Open<< Pun.

 

[Sven]

Explain... 'varies between 10° and 55°. I don't know how you read varies as on and off when it has to be handcuffed in the evolution of the jobbers. Yes again, the book does say this meets this and it's on, and this meets this and it's off. I get the short abstract of it.

So let me bring in the evolvement the handcuffing brings in vs your On Off Thinking.
1. How stuck in the evolution is a set of points? No change since day one of the handcuffs of nature man has to follow.
2. How stuck in the evolution from mechanical advance to electronic advance is the same linear swing of the weights or the analog. With me so far?
3. 10 varies in linear numbers math'd in the processor yes or no? Flip is the flop to the next advance curve or are we still in the counterweight move is handcuffed to the load of 1234567 and down 7654321 is lift.

But if I pull either vac or wire, the processor sees this out of the loop and backup keeps calc'ing. So the mimic is on in backup or the Alpha low loads and Jetronics at light and start loads.

Absolute pressure is what number? 760mmHg/101.3pa/14.7psi/1 atm. Are we not back to the same sensor evolved following the same handcuff nature puts us in?

Only a 'More Air' thinker gets confused. If my medical meter in pa, the one they wrap around your arm, that medical meter. That needle may shake all over, but on the valve close, that needle zips so fast back to 760mmHg, that's when it hit me, you have to build FI around me.

Does the toilet and heart mimic the 555 timer that the 60mz it is handcuffed to, yes or no? Do not bring in a sensor or I'll hit your handcuffs again. I want your simple walk. If that shit in the toilet is not bleeding Occam's Razor... your explanation then is?

Mike, play it as a chess game. My buddy gave me two tech books... introduction to microprocessing. Very first page is intro to the 3 moves in the processor, aka, the timer. Then a chapter on binary and how to read the 4 blocks of 1 and 0 combos and you know that stuff. Next come the chips and their 3 legs. And/Or/Nor truthtables, and so on. So if we are on the same page???

Pretty strange yes? Your move next? The way I see it, I have you at check = looks like/smells like/walks like/760mmHg to me? And the walk goes obsolete, but carries the same weight and add a pun to that:
1. The Mechanical advance goes Linear. The weights go, so do the points. But the on-off remains is that change.
2. The VOES goes Linear in the flipflop.
3. The MAP sucks in linear and follows the Alpha as it mimics the VOES.
4. The linear is the move that never leaves the curve getting there.
5. The toilet flush and those 3 moves is man tied to.
6. The on off remains and those are magnetic on and off moves that mimic the points in two moves only.
7. The linear move of an E is still linear of the cuff.
8 I am handcuffed to E/60/760.

Or, I have you at checkmate. Flipflop is it? Brainfart with me. You may have something I must be missing. I'm handcuffed at the toilet, handcuffed as I see how the evolution of the hard parts mimic the counter weights.

Okay, this popped in the head. Old stock car trick. Weld the weighs open think. That's like pulling the VOES off. Now it sure on's off. Pulling 9 sensors and pulling the VOES off some evo the kid bought to chop? Ass factor went there too to understand digital to analog. Ear factor is having analog sent in, pull the wire or use a toggle to set the Open, I now hear the digital tone in backup. Two unique sounds are analog and digital. The medical vac gauge shows me the alpha number.

To me, Mike, that sure does walk the talk in the book abstract to me. Right out of a 1984 Harley serviceM and the other is the bike I ride now and out of the pages of that M. Choose any computer bike. They basically explain what I'm saying the abstract does not.

So right off, I have to walk it so much so I corral your MAS, ask you if linear has left all the mimic of the obsolete part that does two things. The on off, and the weights throw the linear. Agree? Because I think I walked too fast, you missed the alpha of nature between the vac signals.

 

[Sven]

I'm sure you timed a few V-twins and watched how the timing light brings up the advance line, right? Looks linear to me when the cup is set in the cone and does not move but a window pass but for a speed differential of a wave length up a wire, right? Still 1's and 0's up to the timing mark, agreed?

 

[Mikeinjersey]

I think this will help.

EVO: Engine Control - Sportsterpedia

sportsterpedia.com

 

[Sven]

Oh linear, linear help me please,
Mikey is in a NASCAR freeze.

Can't take it with me is the flyweights and springs,
But sure can bring the on's be off and linear things.

Mass air sensor is my flow,
Don't you know it's a wafer in the know.

I don't agree in the theory and thee,
Book be surprised how the steps came to be.

OH fuck is that shit I'm out of here,
Don't be like that, a chess game appeared.

You make your moves that I don't agree you and me,
Book savvy says, Occum for Occum is something you don't see.

That's it for me, I'm taking my MAP and fleeing from thee.
Here take your weights it's a heavy load, I have to empty my overflowing commode.

 

[Sven]

" This causes the ICM to switch between the two advance curves based on a set point level of manifold vacuum "
Correct. The set point is so linear, you cannot feel the set point from either map change as you just slowly start from zero mph to eventually ending in WOT. Did you feel a snap to one curve to the next? No. If so, you have a more sensitive ass factor than what runs up my seat of the pants difference... is none... yes or no?

"The manifold vacuum directly controls the VOES, but the throttle position (and/or it's aggressive changes) indirectly alters the VOES (thru changes in the manifold vacuum) by altering the carburetor throttle plate "
Note the word aggressive. That's a full switch locker of vacuum.

OBTW, mighty-vac on the vac nipple of the body, an ohmmeter at the black and purple. Guess what the digital on the meter read? Linear numbers on the vac pull.

I can't believe he ate the whole thing.

Back to Camp Book Believers:
Notice how I read the abstract, take the hard part in hand and watch the linear move on the wafer pull. WATThell am I missing between basic Analog in and basic one wave length out?

Abstract read in the book is now how a processor works. Oh yes it does LOL. Again, Mike, no disrespect. This is some complex shit and I know very little of it. But bottom line basics, yes.

On the redundancy of the code, it just to me exposes what it does in the linear. Analog, I cannot feel the flip to flop, flop to flip. With the VOES out of the loop, damn straight I feel the instant switch from low to high map change. The backup. The redundant. The same shit linear smooth or on-off hacked via Open.

Mike, you can't keep up. You'd be agreeing one step after the other. Book savvy is me. Not sure about you. And again, not your intelligence in question, just hard to grasp the 3amigos the way 3 books sees it.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

" This causes the ICM to switch between the two advance curves based on a set point level of manifold vacuum "
Correct. The set point is so linear, you cannot feel the set point from either map change as you just slowly start from zero mph to eventually ending in WOT. Did you feel a snap to one curve to the next? No. If so, you have a more sensitive ass factor than what runs up my seat of the pants difference... is none... yes or no?

"The manifold vacuum directly controls the VOES, but the throttle position (and/or it's aggressive changes) indirectly alters the VOES (thru changes in the manifold vacuum) by altering the carburetor throttle plate "
Note the word aggressive. That's a full switch locker of vacuum.

OBTW, mighty-vac on the vac nipple of the body, an ohmmeter at the black and purple. Guess what the digital on the meter read? Linear numbers on the vac pull.

I can't believe he ate the whole thing.

Back to Camp Book Believers:
Notice how I read the abstract, take the hard part in hand and watch the linear move on the wafer pull. WATThell am I missing between basic Analog in and basic one wave length out?

Abstract read in the book is now how a processor works. Oh yes it does LOL. Again, Mike, no disrespect. This is some complex shit and I know very little of it. But bottom line basics, yes.

On the redundancy of the code, it just to me exposes what it does in the linear. Analog, I cannot feel the flip to flop, flop to flip. With the VOES out of the loop, damn straight I feel the instant switch from low to high map change. The backup. The redundant. The same shit linear smooth or on-off hacked via Open.

Mike, you can't keep up. You'd be agreeing one step after the other. Book savvy is me. Not sure about you. And again, not your intelligence in question, just hard to grasp the 3amigos the way 3 books sees it.

But I reiterate there is no VOES in a EFI that I have ever seen. If you have reference for one, please provide.

Problem here is I get the complex stuff inside the black box and just have trouble with some of the over simplification you are using to explain it to other non tech people.

 

[Sven]

But I reiterate there is no VOES in a EFI that I have ever seen. If you have reference for one, please provide.

I did mention that the now obsolete VOES was kind of the Mother Of The Sensor. An analog input sensor. That's what needs to be recognized, not the complex lifting the hood on a black box. You missed it again or I'm not walking for you to grasp the input? No way.

If anyone, you're the challenged child. You are whom I am after. You're stuck someplace I can tell. This is bottom line out the book basics. More like not connecting the dots, but stepping over them. How could you apply a V to FI? I'm walking the very first wheel is the VOES. It's a revised vacuum sensor is the MAP.

We apply modern VOES, we have now two telemetries that take over loads when codes. You should have connected the dots. Throttle position appears next thru the years. The two Hi/Lo backups are the tps and vac sensor, yes? Book says yes. Buy that and we agree so far FI. Where in the FI can I bring the next sensor to FI, you talk about VOES to FI? And I am talking about watching an ohmmeter, pull vacuum, and the numbers tumble 123456 in a linear move is VOES. If I grab that MAP, show me on off. Shit, show me on off is your side saying switch. I agree in the book, but it stops there. Now the complex says jack about linear out the VOES. Are we on that page?

How can I believe your ON to OFF when I said it's linear and Flip meets the RPM Threshold, Flop goes the other map. Did you feel the smooth map change in the VOESignal? Neither did I. If I digit the signal in, do I feel both maps instantly act the redundant on/off is to ask yourself the difference between a vac and no vac.

Again I repeat, how can I watch the ohmmeter run the linear, that's not showing me an ON OFF in the shop manual, the url you sent in, and he is repeating the same abstract, and I have to understand why you do not see the analog signal first. I'll make the abstract even shorter... Low map goes on at idle, high map goes on WOT. If I have it reversed, so WATT. They say nothing about flipflop.

Did you catch that? No book says anything about flipflop but you know inside that's what it does. How come I can step with you in the black box, but outside you're lost with me and I know both sides?

Problem here is I get the complex stuff inside the black box and just have trouble with some of the over simplification you are using to explain it to other non tech people.

Well actually, maybe some can decipher some of it. Guys come in working on their own bike and I know some make the attempt at their bikes and have some aptitude to it. BBQ theory can correlate to a briquette for fuel, a match for spark, and the air for combustion to happen like compression needs.

Might you understand it this way:
12v in - 555 timer - 5v out
Analog in - processor - Digital out.

If I said Huston:
12v in - 555 timer - 12v out. Burnt motherboard somewhere short of a fuse first.
Digital in - processor - Code set/backup happens/Alpha acts the redundant.

Notice this goes right back to the basic move if a processor is between acting the set of points, and a curve electrically? Then:
Recognize input.
Determine between it sending analog or digital.
Phantom codes sent to be recognized as output as a soft code [phantom read at the meter] or hard code [the broken CAN wire].

This has nothing to do with FI as you think. I'm picking out basic parts from motherV. It has to do with walking up to any computer bike and recognize it only works one way. And that's by taking the VOES and dissect it and comes back the first sensor with vac assist to move the wafer and here we go back to the redundant.

It's walks so lusciously I have to admit. We'll probably have a drink over this and point at each other laughing and say, you VOES out the ass with that shit, and I'm saying, fuck it, let's go for sushi, I'm buying.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

I did mention that the now obsolete VOES was kind of the Mother Of The Sensor. An analog input sensor. That's what needs to be recognized, not the complex lifting the hood on a black box. You missed it again or I'm not walking for you to grasp the input? No way.

If anyone, you're the challenged child. You are whom I am after. You're stuck someplace I can tell. This is bottom line out the book basics. More like not connecting the dots, but stepping over them. How could you apply a V to FI? I'm walking the very first wheel is the VOES. It's a revised vacuum sensor is the MAP.

We apply modern VOES, we have now two telemetries that take over loads when codes. You should have connected the dots. Throttle position appears next thru the years. The two Hi/Lo backups are the tps and vac sensor, yes? Book says yes. Buy that and we agree so far FI. Where in the FI can I bring the next sensor to FI, you talk about VOES to FI? And I am talking about watching an ohmmeter, pull vacuum, and the numbers tumble 123456 in a linear move is VOES. If I grab that MAP, show me on off. Shit, show me on off is your side saying switch. I agree in the book, but it stops there. Now the complex says jack about linear out the VOES. Are we on that page?

Again I repeat, how can I watch the ohmmeter run the linear, that's not showing me an ON OFF in the shop manual, the url you sent in, and he is repeating the same abstract, and I have to understand why you do not see the analog signal first. I'll make the abstract even shorter... Low map goes on at idle, high map goes on WOT. If I have it reversed, so WATT. They say nothing about flipflop.

Here's my issue.

VOES is BY DEFINITION a Vacumm Operated Electronic Switch -- It is typically a diaphram, spring and some contacts thay when it hits x inches of mercury (4 to 7) it turns on.

Show me a "modern voes" of which you speak the provides range of output. Part number will suffice.

We may be speaking in simply crossed terms.

 

[Sven]

Mike, here is my thread title... the very first step to a computer bike's diagnosing is the skeleton. And that means to recognize that of the analog signal in. That's it. There is no range to talk about, nothing about a new sensor to bring in that has to act the 'modern voes.' It is to recognize the analog in and no codes out.

This deciphers the diagnosing of the sensor of it sending data in or none at all. When we see the CEL on the car's dash, it is saying the same thing as backup/fail-safe, and when that light shows on the dash, it simply is saying, you went from analog to digital, check jobbbers to and from (wires) the jobber itself. Where the self diagnosing comes in, the ECU is saying, you had data input, now you have no signal at all. Set CEL (code) light. See your dealer, etc.

First thing you should think of is, do I have analog in?

"-- It is typically a diaphram, (silicone wafer) spring and some contacts (wire in-wire out connected to a linear pull of vac) that when it hits x inches of mercury (4 to 7) [analog's up the merc stick; 0-1-2-3-4 pulls the wafer signal to change maps under load] it turns on."
Looks 0-1-2-3-4 inches of merc to analog up even pulling the wafer, let alone the wires show 0-1-2-3-4 counts of analog up those wires to a processor. Got the walk yet to see many moves up the wire, and even the merc stick?

"Show me a "modern voes" of which you speak the provides range of output. Part number will suffice."
VOES
MAP
MAF
TPS
WTS
ECU... all need analog [skeleton's move] to enter into the processor.

That's why you are on the merc road, and I am at deadman's curve. Show me that VOES is not an analog move. Is it a sensor with wires, yes or no? Does E move in a linear, spin up the crank, and does the stator show instant 0 to 32a out the wire or is it 0millionths of volts hits 1v... spins up 100000000000 and out of room how long those zero are? So it goes .... 0000000000000056789, it's going to tip to 6790v filling those zeros and here comes 2v. So after filling all those zeros out of the stator goes AC, yes or no?

Here is how I see the construction inside the V. There is no magnet to hold an on off scenario, yes or no? I'll go with no. I now read the next sentence of the abstract in the book, and it says load, switch, curve. That's what I pulled out of the abstract. Now I see a diaphragm in the V and two wires. So this section boils down for me is; load-map up-load covered for knock.

Now I sit and take a ride with no load but a smooth throttle up. I now think tic-tac-toe board and one block at a time enters the map being an RPM speed going liner from block to block. At that center block on the board, that center is a flipflop to full advance, where I never felt the transitional change slowly moving up to it, yes or no?

Back to the M and another sentence of abstract. How can you read that book and not tell load testing is the diagnosing? If switch does not go smooth in the running up to it, meaning, in the service side [on the road, hello?] check for a switching of maps or it says fuck you we got it covered anyway under the digithink. Book the fuck closed on off the fuck!

NO NO< WATT he said!

No wonder that conflict on how to read the abstract. LOL



Mike, I am zero move at the stator. Is the stator basically a larger crank sensor pickup at the cone and cup? Still makes AC. Still has to follow the analog-zeros to make the next volt. Not some on off directly from switch 1v to 2v. Where in the analog did the zeros go to get from 1 to 2v? That's how I'm thinking out a volt from a zero move of the crank. I don't need an ohmmeter to see those zeros of microvolts to another analog level of mini volts and then to a volt. E goes analog yes or no? LOL

You are stuck at the on off of a sensor? Snap out of it! I am the skeleton crew from the guts inside the sensor.
I dissected your sensor as you just have, and you have yet to see two wires, and the analog go up that wire. Not the VOES wire, I'm talking about walking up to the bike and recognize analog [out] from a sensor = Period. That's FI = Analog IN and no Code OUT.

WATTizz the difference between walking up to a boat anchor or starting back up a computer bike? The analog input. Perfect example is the crank/cam sensor. That sensor sent every tiny little spin of E up that wire and that made AC. So up the wire goes the rpm signal is in thousands read, just like the pickup has to start from 0 and it starts from all those micro volts to make a volt and 12345k rpm, or analog did it send up the wire. But boat start is 0000000v up the gangplank.

Turns page.....

How close are we now? And for the 3rd time, yes or no just say, or I don't understand Hubbish and his rubbishit. Do the 3handcuffed moves make sense to the 555 timer are those 3 copycat moves you see in nature, is the heart, then you see how man has to make the jobber build something around it, and by exposing the heart to fill up the tank in the back, your analog is 3 floaters and 2 sinkers, flush that 5 times and now onto the 555 timer is the mimic.

Well, this is another Master Class you've gotten me into, Oil E

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

Mike, here is my thread title... the very first step to a computer bike's diagnosing is the skeleton. And that means to recognize that of the analog signal in. That's it. There is no range to talk about, nothing about a new sensor to bring in that has to act the 'modern voes.' It is to recognize the analog in and no codes out.

This deciphers the diagnosing of the sensor of it sending data in or none at all. When we see the CEL on the car's dash, it is saying the same thing as backup/fail-safe, and when that light shows on the dash, it simply is saying, you went from analog to digital, check jobbbers to and from (wires) the jobber itself. Where the self diagnosing comes in, the ECU is saying, you had data input, now you have no signal at all. Set CEL (code) light. See your dealer, etc.

First thing you should think of is, do I have analog in?

"-- It is typically a diaphram, (silicone wafer) spring and some contacts (wire in-wire out connected to a linear pull of vac) that when it hits x inches of mercury (4 to 7) [analog's up the merc stick; 0-1-2-3-4 pulls the wafer signal to change maps under load] it turns on."
Looks 0-1-2-3-4 inches of merc to analog up even pulling the wafer, let alone the wires show 0-1-2-3-4 counts of analog up those wires to a processor. Got the walk yet to see many moves up the wire, and even the merc stick?

"Show me a "modern voes" of which you speak the provides range of output. Part number will suffice."
VOES
MAP
MAF
TPS
WTS
ECU... all need analog [skeleton's move] to enter into the processor.

That's why you are on the merc road, and I am at deadman's curve. Show me that VOES is not an analog move. Is it a sensor with wires, yes or no? Does E move in a linear, spin up the crank, and does the stator show instant 0 to 32a out the wire or is it 0millionths of volts hits 1v... spins up 100000000000 and out of room how long those zero are? So it goes .... 0000000000000056789, it's going to tip to 6790v filling those zeros and here comes 2v. So after filling all those zeros out of the stator goes AC, yes or no?

Here is how I see the construction inside the V. There is no magnet to hold an on off scenario, yes or no? I'll go with no. I now read the next sentence of the abstract in the book, and it says load, switch, curve. That's what I pulled out of the abstract. Now I see a diaphragm in the V and two wires. So this section boils down for me is; load-map up-load covered for knock.

Now I sit and take a ride with no load but a smooth throttle up. I now think tic-tac-toe board and one block at a time enters the map being an RPM speed going liner from block to block. At that center block on the board, that center is a flipflop to full advance, where I never felt the transitional change slowly moving up to it, yes or no?

Back to the M and another sentence of abstract. How can you read that book and not tell load testing is the diagnosing? If switch does not go smooth in the running up to it, meaning, in the service side [on the road, hello?] check for a switching of maps or it says fuck you we got it covered anyway under the digithink. Book the fuck closed on off the fuck!

NO NO< WATT he said!

No wonder that conflict on how to read the abstract. LOL



Mike, I am zero move at the stator. Is the stator basically a larger crank sensor pickup at the cone and cup? Still makes AC. Still has to follow the analog-zeros to make the next volt. Not some on off directly from switch 1v to 2v. Where in the analog did the zeros go to get from 1 to 2v? That's how I'm thinking out a volt from a zero move of the crank. I don't need an ohmmeter to see those zeros of microvolts to another analog level of mini volts and then to a volt. E goes analog yes or no? LOL

You are stuck at the on off of a sensor? Snap out of it! I am the skeleton crew from the guts inside the sensor.
I dissected your sensor as you just have, and you have yet to see two wires, and the analog go up that wire. Not the VOES wire, I'm talking about walking up to the bike and recognize analog [out] from a sensor = Period. That's FI = Analog IN and no Code OUT.

WATTizz the difference between walking up to a boat anchor or starting back up a computer bike? The analog input. Perfect example is the crank/cam sensor. That sensor sent every tiny little spin of E up that wire and that made AC. So up the wire goes the rpm signal is in thousands read, just like the pickup has to start from 0 and it starts from all those micro volts to make a volt and 12345k rpm, or analog did it send up the wire. But boat start is 0000000 up the gangplank.

Turns page.....

How close are we now? And for the 3rd time, yes or no just say, or I don't understand Hubbish and his rubbishit. Do the 3handcuffed moves make sense to the 555 timer are those 3 copycat moves you see in nature, is the heart, then you see how man has to make the jobber build something around it, and by exposing the heart to fill up the tank in the back, your analog is 3 floaters and 2 sinkers, flush that 5 times and now onto the 555 timer is the mimic.

Well, this is another Master Class you've gotten me into, Oil E

Again, you say one thing and when questioned about that specifc you go off on a tangent.

You mentioned a "Modern VOES" that you claimed read varying number on an ohmmeter. I asked for a reference to this part.
If it is providing a range it CAN NOT BE A VOES, it is another sort of vacuum sensor.
I still have seen no EFI system that has a VOES -- can not find any reference to one.
Since this is primarily a BDM site, the S&S VFI certainly DOES NOT HAVE A VOES -- see the manual.

I believe our fundemental problem here is you are using the term VOES generically and not for the specific device (type) that it is.

 

[chubs]

I've got an idea,, how about we all agree to disagree ? All this back and forth is serving no real purpose and actually starting to become a little bit annoying , (in my opinion.)

 

[Sven]

Again, Mike, no offense to you, in fact, I owe you a beer and a plate of 3omega rolls of lead. Think of that scene of, you had me at the abstract. Because it just dawned on me, this is more an exercise to get me to the point of the abstract's read of the book and the confusion there of. I mean, minutes ago. I see where I fit into that confusion.

So again, I master-c'd Ivan's Performance knowing book abstract, then a few days ago watching analog go in and seeing CAN wires out of the loop, let alone the water world ride when hacked. Now this one is the VOES. Call Ivan... years ago I told him I was going to figure out his move, because I knew he didn't know the walk. Because he came back and told me he believes me. So much fun with him. A busy man who moved on. My mentor. Tell him hello.

And now this VOES interpretation. And again, Mike, I owe you big time for the input, no pun intended. Think of the same movie and his conversation about pulling the suds away from his lips and says, 'I'm glad we had this conversation.' Thanks, VOES MAN!

The thing is I'm seeing both angles to the read. Their side (the internet) and mine. And it's not the book's fault. I'm saying it's a sensor and it's reads as an on off switch? No. So it's very simple to follow exactly what the sensor does. You're not wrong in other words. You are exactly right.

And what I'm saying is that you have the key right there when you open to that first computer book, was HD placing the V in the late 70's early 80's models. It's the analog mother of telemetry. Now here is the diagnostic tree. Does it analog in?

 

[Sven]

I've got an idea,, how about we all agree to disagree ? All this back and forth is serving no real purpose and actually starting to become a little bit annoying , (in my opinion.)

Oh my word no, chubs. I just had an out of paragraph experience minutes ago. It was Mike's input. The purpose for me was my long walk. It makes me think about how this thing works. And, it's if I walked away from it and start fresh and it popped in my head about how to read the shop manual one way. I mean, it says this is an on off switch and does this. Correct.

This is more Mike's electronic background and his feedback. An exercise to bounce off of, yes, his abstract. Without his input, the pop in the head may have never come. He's the man from epiphany!

No offense to you, chubs, but this might be way over your head is just guessing if opinions count LOL

 

[chubs]

Oh my word no, chubs. I just had an out of paragraph experience minutes ago. It was Mike's input. The purpose for me was my long walk. It makes me think about how this thing works. And, it's if I walked away from it and start fresh and it popped in my head about how to read the shop manual one way. I mean, it says this is an on off switch and does this. Correct.

This is more Mike's electronic background and his feedback. An exercise to bounce off of, yes, his abstract. Without his input, the pop in the head may have never come. He's the man from epiphany!

No offense to you, chubs, but this might be way over your head is just guessing if opinions count LOL

No problem. All along I agreed with Big Mike about the VOES being an on/off switch simply due to the fact that I have had lots of experience servicing systems that use these things.

 

[Sven]

Now I'll suck you into the conversation and walk the talk with me. And remember, it's not about you personally. This is more a dis to the web. We are going to open the book that the parrots repeat so you know the abstract is out of the book. Listen carefully to every move I make when I open the book to page... Checking operation:

Caution: No V may set the (too much advanced spark) advanced map, and may cause extreme engine knock and engine failure. Does it suck it in the linear, yes. Then proceed to next step.

Set timing light to look see and V should literally show 10° for startup/40° for fast idle/55° for 1800-2800 rpm and up. No can see 3 degrees? Oh you can see the analog shows its face in the degree of it screaming analog is I have to send you to the other test paragraph down.

If my V can analog up to and stop at the ignition module, I have analog up the wire. The V can also be checked using an ohmmeter and a Harley-Davidson VACUUM PUMP, Part No. HD-23738. WATT in the fuck are the other 3? That one is out selecting ohm. Volt is out I have a V in my hand. Amp, need power so who is left? Select ohm resistance.

Turn to page Troubleshooting:

Before you open this book, did someone tell you where to look? I walked up to the first computer bike made with a sensor. I can't walk up to a switch and say on and off to the next sensor I see LOL. Set meter to x1. Do the digital numbers show 123456 in ohms? Then the switch works. Go to computerized control module.

CCM:
Remove shoes, step inside the CCM and sit down and look around. Mike the wait here will be right with you. Mike, show them the menu. We have our live pulsing map here on a plate, AND/OR our dead digit on a plate. WATT, you don't like the menu? The cook in the back only prepares two meals. You didn't see that before you walked in? Go to complaint desk one paragraph down.

What does a processor do?
1. Sees an electrical wave and the process begins.
How many steps inside the CCM?
2. Two.
How many maps can be brought up when analog enters?
3. The 10-40-55° Curved map when hot is the leg of 1 map in analog pulsing.
When the vac signal no longer exist, what happens?
Map 2 or the default map, or the backup map, or the quick seat of the pants it's dangerous and knocks advanced curved map without the 40°. So 10 to 55 is like flipflop when I read that extra 10 or so degrees and whap 55 like a switch.
4. When the big black ring comes off of ground, what happens next?
Map 2 can be had two ways it only works one way.
5. See the cashier on your way out... burb.

And you can sing in the wind with your fucking assbackwards abstract and how you read it. Why can't you bring shit like this forward? Stuck to the on and off for all I care is chase your tail because you missed it. It's analog first. period, no on off. LOL

Love to have a bike build off or a boat off and bring your fucking on offs. I do dis for sport. The laughs I am having behind this screen you wouldn't believe. And over and over I have to stress it is not your fault an the dis is on you guys. No, I fault those that still have those sites up an yack the on off of a V. Not how that sensor works when they tell you flat the fuck out to set the ohm. Laughing again close the book. YOu ain't ready.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Don't ever forget Sven's mantra " Tormenting the cycling public one post at a time ". It will be at your own peril, as his rabbit holes can get pretty deep