clunk from primary or drive train like a tooth jumping?
- Thread starter Nomad2day
- Start date
N8KAM
Well-Known Member
This sounds right to me.... My buddy thought he blew up his 02 Pitbull because it was making a noise and jumping around so bad.... I found the head of a broken chrome allen head bolt stuck in the teeth of the primary (Trans gear) and it was causing the racket.. still don't know wear it came from..
I know yours is not this excessive but the pieces are smaller and not jammed in the sprocket....
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Nomad2day
Longhair Redneck Geek
Yes I am running the stock clutch basket and NO there was not a spacer behind the basket...:up: Yes the Clutch Basket Nut did come loose before allowing it to hit the Outer Primary cover and tearing it up....:up:
The shop took the clutch basket apart to clean all the metal out of everything then.
I have had it apart and drained the oil sense then so something has happened.
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Nomad2day
Longhair Redneck Geek
Vegas, I did not see anywhere if the pieces got on the gears causing a clearance issue as the chain rode across.
What I am saying is "it sounded like the chain jumped a tooth" but with the amount of backlash that I see, the chain could of gotten slack or when the clutch basket hit the inner primary the clutch basket bounced backwards where it has slack and then the drive gear spinning faster snatched the chain making the clunking noise sounding like it jumped a tooth.
It is almost like the transmission main shaft bearing is going bad allowing it flex and the bolts on the backside of the clutch basket are hitting the inner cover or the spline hub has got too much wear in it.
I have not put my finger on it yet but it appears to be a wear problem and spinning metal is hitting metal causing the clunk.
As V said, there is no spacer behind the clutch basket so wear could cause a clearance issue now.
Seeing how it is not happening under acceleration it appears wear is allowing something too happen when the load is not applied.
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Coolbreeze
Active Member
I've seen those same marks in many of 05 big dogs. When the clutch baskets were breaking. I'd be surprized if yours is cracked, but flip it over and tell me if its cracked around the mainshaft.
bdmridgeback
Low Down Chop Shop
Stick a magnetic pen in along side the seal that the clutch basket hub slides into and see if there is a shim stuck to the bearing. Mid 2006 and up was supposed to and there was a recall to have one put in if it didn't have it. That would cure the rubbing on the inner primary before you put it back together. Just make sue after you put the shim in that the chain is within the .030 alignment tol.
Nomad2day
Longhair Redneck Geek
Jake,
I did not have a magnet small enough but used a pick inside the seal and yes there was a shim stuck to the bearing inside. I do not have any calipers here but using some plug gap shims it looks to be about .050 thousands. Good call there dude.
I wonder why it is hitting the cover now?
Yes they were. The diamer of the two pieces are about the drilled hole sizes on the back of the carrier.There is 6 drilled through holes. I guess that eliminates it being from the inner primary cover. It is not magnetic.
Yes I have drained all the fluids. It did not seem bad today. A few months ago or whenever it was, the tranny was contaminated with moisture and did have shavings in it then. It was the first time I had drained it due to the shop doing the services at 7500. It is at 10K now.
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05chop
Well-Known Member
Neil This is where we find out WHAT, HOW, WHO, it happened in Failure analysis. You need to find if those metal pieces belong inside there.One would think that the metal pieces going around the chain would cause compression load at the trany bearings. Way back there was a service letter that came out for the 05 models with bad snap rings on the main shaft.This should not effect your model though.If you put the trany in third gear and rotate it can you feel anything.Keep us informed
Nomad2day
Longhair Redneck Geek
Thanks to everyone so far on words of wisdom and what to check. Learned a few thing about having a eye for detail and looking at everything.
I think the problem is in the transmission and I will tell you why. I had another transmission issue in July just before I went on vacation thinking it was the throw out bearing for the most part. I have a thread on here from that.
http://www.bigdogbiker.com/forums/drive-train/5820-roaring-noise-when-clutch-pulled-07-bulldog.html
Here is one post from it....
BBChopper,
I am believing the it is in the transmission. I do not know how the internals work in one so someone can point me in the right direction, here is my take of it.
When I had the clutch pack out, I reached down and grabbed the clutch Basket nut and rotated the shaft "Mainshaft?" by hand and had a roar noise here like a bearing was scarred. Was not smooth by any means anyway. Anyway may question is the mainshaft being supported by the 5th gear bearing? What is the bearing called that supports the shaft coming out of the transmission case? Appears it is roaring . When I drained the transmission, it was contaminated with moister and just a brown liquid muck.
perhaps someone can point me in the right direction here and the proper way to replace this bearing.
Thanks,
Neil
Anyway, when I drained the transmission then it had a lot of metal contamination. Last night when I pulled the shim out where bdmridgeback told me to look I put it in my wallet. Today at work I looked at it and it is embedded with metal all around the face of it where it was against the bearing in the transmission side. The above post was talking about the roaring and rough feel when the shaft was rotated. Something is ate up in the transmission allowing the clearance to be reduced were the hub is against this shim. I can feel play in the mainshaft if I move it around.
Here is a couple of pics of the metal embedded in the shim.
For the metal on the magnet. The chain had been rubbing on one of the inner primary mounting bolts by the primary gear. You can see where the side of the chain had rubbed on the face of the Bolt. I guess I need to pull the transmission all the way out and open the top cover and look and see what it looks like inside and call Big Dog and see if they want me to drop it off at one of there shops to ship it to them or call Baker. Makes it easier seeing how I have everything disassembled.
Perhaps between the clutch basket nut coming loose a whike back something got out of tolerance and wore down.
Anyway, just another evening in the garage....
Neil
I think the problem is in the transmission and I will tell you why. I had another transmission issue in July just before I went on vacation thinking it was the throw out bearing for the most part. I have a thread on here from that.
http://www.bigdogbiker.com/forums/drive-train/5820-roaring-noise-when-clutch-pulled-07-bulldog.html
Here is one post from it....
BBChopper,
I am believing the it is in the transmission. I do not know how the internals work in one so someone can point me in the right direction, here is my take of it.
When I had the clutch pack out, I reached down and grabbed the clutch Basket nut and rotated the shaft "Mainshaft?" by hand and had a roar noise here like a bearing was scarred. Was not smooth by any means anyway. Anyway may question is the mainshaft being supported by the 5th gear bearing? What is the bearing called that supports the shaft coming out of the transmission case? Appears it is roaring . When I drained the transmission, it was contaminated with moister and just a brown liquid muck.
perhaps someone can point me in the right direction here and the proper way to replace this bearing.
Thanks,
Neil
Anyway, when I drained the transmission then it had a lot of metal contamination. Last night when I pulled the shim out where bdmridgeback told me to look I put it in my wallet. Today at work I looked at it and it is embedded with metal all around the face of it where it was against the bearing in the transmission side. The above post was talking about the roaring and rough feel when the shaft was rotated. Something is ate up in the transmission allowing the clearance to be reduced were the hub is against this shim. I can feel play in the mainshaft if I move it around.
Here is a couple of pics of the metal embedded in the shim.
For the metal on the magnet. The chain had been rubbing on one of the inner primary mounting bolts by the primary gear. You can see where the side of the chain had rubbed on the face of the Bolt. I guess I need to pull the transmission all the way out and open the top cover and look and see what it looks like inside and call Big Dog and see if they want me to drop it off at one of there shops to ship it to them or call Baker. Makes it easier seeing how I have everything disassembled.
Perhaps between the clutch basket nut coming loose a whike back something got out of tolerance and wore down.
Anyway, just another evening in the garage....
Neil
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Nomad2day
Longhair Redneck Geek
Chris,
The pieces are magnetic some what but due to being on the magnetic oil drain I think. As I was cleaning the inner primary case today I think I found where the pieces came from. Up on the top side above the primary gear are two pieces or chunks knocked out of the inner casing where the chain has bucked up and hit the case. This is where the inner and out case bolt up that it hit. I will put up a pic later.
A bearing is seizing in the transmission in 3rd or the clutch basket is hitting the inner primary removing the backlash. Both would give the same effect in causing the primary chain to slam.
I did not put a dial indicator on the clutch basket. The chain has been rubbing a bolt head by the primary drive. Has worn the face of it down.
The transmission drive shaft has had a griding noise when rotating, metal in the tranny fluid and now starting to lock up in 3rd gear under no load.
Metal is embedded into the shim on the transmission side of it. Tranny main shaft has play in it up and down anyway.
What should the lash be on the gears?
I would prefer to pull it out and send it to Big Dog without opening it so they know I have not been in it not that it matters but whatever they would like me to do with it. The bike will not be put back together for a while so this is the time to do whatever I am going to do.
Neil
The pieces are magnetic some what but due to being on the magnetic oil drain I think. As I was cleaning the inner primary case today I think I found where the pieces came from. Up on the top side above the primary gear are two pieces or chunks knocked out of the inner casing where the chain has bucked up and hit the case. This is where the inner and out case bolt up that it hit. I will put up a pic later.
A bearing is seizing in the transmission in 3rd or the clutch basket is hitting the inner primary removing the backlash. Both would give the same effect in causing the primary chain to slam.
I did not put a dial indicator on the clutch basket. The chain has been rubbing a bolt head by the primary drive. Has worn the face of it down.
The transmission drive shaft has had a griding noise when rotating, metal in the tranny fluid and now starting to lock up in 3rd gear under no load.
Metal is embedded into the shim on the transmission side of it. Tranny main shaft has play in it up and down anyway.
What should the lash be on the gears?
I would prefer to pull it out and send it to Big Dog without opening it so they know I have not been in it not that it matters but whatever they would like me to do with it. The bike will not be put back together for a while so this is the time to do whatever I am going to do.
Neil
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05chop
Well-Known Member
Not good news Neil.As you know from the history of events that your trany has been threw dont sound good.Would you think all of this started from the water in the trany? That trany bearing you said thats seized! this again can be a bigger problem if it turned in the case! Hope it all works out for you.
Nomad2day
Longhair Redneck Geek
Al,
it is not the tabs on the bolts. They are all there. I did check those to start with, but a good call on your account. I will double check anyway.
Nomad2day
Longhair Redneck Geek
QUOTE=05chop;133198]Not good news Neil.As you know from the history of events that your trany has been threw dont sound good.Would you think all of this started from the water in the trany? That trany bearing you said thats seized! this again can be a bigger problem if it turned in the case! Hope it all works out for you.[/QUOTE]
Dogvet,
Thanks for dropping in and your words of wisdom are always appreciated.
Been a couple of weeks from my last posting here. After replacing the throw out bearing with a sealed double roller bearing the noise was greatly reduced. I serviced the transmission and after a couple of days the noise is greatly reduced and not really noticeable as it was before. Perhaps the new fluid in the transmission made the difference, not sure as both things were changed. I will pull the push rod out and lube it also.
I went out today, pulled the clutch in and dropped it down into 2nd and 1st where the roaring was most pronounced and all seems normal now while coasting.
The bike is driven daily about 10 miles each way to work. The bike prior to this had been in the shop for about 6 weeks in Nashville, driven a couple of weeks and then sat up again for about a month before the symptoms appeared.
Anyway, it is doing pretty good at the moment. I am leaving for a 2 week vacation Monday and see if it seems noisy again after being parked again when I return.
My reply then was:
Dogvet,
Thanks for dropping in and your words of wisdom are always appreciated.
Been a couple of weeks from my last posting here. After replacing the throw out bearing with a sealed double roller bearing the noise was greatly reduced. I serviced the transmission and after a couple of days the noise is greatly reduced and not really noticeable as it was before. Perhaps the new fluid in the transmission made the difference, not sure as both things were changed. I will pull the push rod out and lube it also.
I went out today, pulled the clutch in and dropped it down into 2nd and 1st where the roaring was most pronounced and all seems normal now while coasting.
The bike is driven daily about 10 miles each way to work. The bike prior to this had been in the shop for about 6 weeks in Nashville, driven a couple of weeks and then sat up again for about a month before the symptoms appeared.
Anyway, it is doing pretty good at the moment. I am leaving for a 2 week vacation Monday and see if it seems noisy again after being parked again when I return.
Nomad2day
Longhair Redneck Geek
Called Big Dog 9:30 this morning and they returned the call about 4:30pm central today. Told what all was going on and they are going to call me back with instructions. Asked me not to open up the transmission case which I told him I would not. Told him of the other issues I have been through with the bike. BDM has worked with me pretty good through everything so far that has gone wrong. Hope to get the transmission to them soon so we can see what is happening here....
Neil
Neil
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