Brake Question

Energy One

awg

Guru
Has anyone had this happen to them. On my 2010 Bagger and on my 2004 Chopper (when I had it still) when the weather got really hot and humid my rear brake on the bagger would I guess hang up or drag. I noticed the rear brake pedel would be harder to push. I did rebuild the rear calipar. On the Chopper the front brake would hang up. It makes it hard to push the bike when the brakes are dragging. After the bike sits in the shade and cools down there normal again. Was wondering if with the heat and humidity it would build up pressure and cause the brakes to drag? Now this hasn't happen to my other bikes.
 

Mikeinjersey

Well-Known Member
Has anyone had this happen to them. On my 2010 Bagger and on my 2004 Chopper (when I had it still) when the weather got really hot and humid my rear brake on the bagger would I guess hang up or drag. I noticed the rear brake pedel would be harder to push. I did rebuild the rear calipar. On the Chopper the front brake would hang up. It makes it hard to push the bike when the brakes are dragging. After the bike sits in the shade and cools down there normal again. Was wondering if with the heat and humidity it would build up pressure and cause the brakes to drag? Now this hasn't happen to my other bikes.
Never happened on my bike but in a car yes. It should not happen and if it does something is not happy. On a bike a sticking front brake is an invitation to disaster. It sounds like you fixed your problems with the rebuilds.
The brakes being harder to push or sticking are signals that something is wrong and needs to be addressed. If your engine craps out you get a ride home in a tow truck. If your brakes crap out :eek:
 

Jersey Big Mike

100K mile club
The first thing that I would do is FLUSH the brake system.
Make sure you use fresh (ie new bottle) of DOT 5 Fluid.
I've rebuilt calipers but haven't done the master cylinders on the Dog yet.
I'd call Eric at HDM or Curtis at Wild Steed Worx if looking for a rebuild kit.
 

Jersey Big Mike

100K mile club
From all my experiences with this issue is the master cylinders get hot and cause this...i wrapped my exhaust and put the heat shields back on...this did help alot but it still sometimes does it, like today for instance, we was at a car show and the master cylinder side was in the sun and it done it....not really had to much issue with the front brake master cylinder doing it...it has happened a few times but it was hot as hell and ofcourse bike was in the sun...
DOT 5 likes to absorb water, heat water and it expands. If you have this happen, I'd flush the system to be safe.
And flushing the brake system is good maintenance anyway.
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
When oil boils, what is found inside those bubbles?

when the weather got really hot... the bagger would ... hang up or drag.
How high did you fill the fluid? Any kind of casting line inside the rez saying level stops here?

I noticed the rear brake pedel would be harder to push.
So on an overfill, heat expands, the diaphragm was wrinkled on the cap pressing down, the air gap between the top of the cap, the bladder of air is like nil, all crushed and the air out of the cap went on and screwed down. Then comes the heat, the bladder sort of expands, pushed the oil without the lever. But being, cool inside is 14.7 no pressure build due to thermodynamic changes.

I did rebuild the rear calipar.
So we are talking an every 2 year fluid dump after how many times vs. year of the bike? I'll get back to that.

... the front brake would hang up. After the bike sits in the shade and cools down there normal again.
So are we saying overfilled? Why the rebuild? Has the front been changed at the same time?

Say the level is correct. Say there is so much expansion of the rubber? The groove contamination is another? I'm done with the diaphragm variable. This is more generic is this one type ring. It's called a Quad-Ring. So imagine a plain old oring, but this one has 4 sides. Cut the ring and you can see the square. Cut an oring and you see the circle. In the caliper, they cut a groove in the caliper and place the q-ring in that groove. The quad just ever so sticks out, and the piston slides into the caliper, sealing around the piston.

Oil is heavier than water, so the condensation in the oil is going to drop down to the lowest point, and that is right under the groove where the quad sits. Years gone by, that crystallizing builds, lifts the quad out of the groove, tightens the piston and locks it. So memory means, the quad in a static condition. In other words, the static is ( l l ) the quad is straight up and down. When you hit the brakes, the quad moves ( // ) forward and the oil pushes the piston towards the pad and onto the disc. The brakes are released, the ( l l ) quad returns to memory, pulls the piston back with it = No drag.

When you cleaned the caliper, are we talking removing material like a machined tolerance between piston and bore hole? Or did you drop the sandpaper, wire wheel, and just used a paper towel and removed the crystal out of the groove, and bore? And I mean all of it with a dentist pick kind of teeth cleaning like. Only a shot of brake spray, let it dry and the sun's ray's shows where you missed.

M/C wise, you'd break the banjo bolt at the caliper; who spun, or who is still locked? See where it frees up at the banjo, it's not the caliper but the master on freewheel?
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
From all my experiences with this issue is the master cylinders get hot and cause this... it has happened a few times but it was hot as hell and ofcourse bike was in the sun.
Sounds like a study in wing wang wong metallurgy, add thermodynamics, which causes cheeze louise.
 

pauly

Active Member
From all my experiences with this issue is the master cylinders get hot and cause this...i wrapped my exhaust and put the heat shields back on...this did help alot but it still sometimes does it, like today for instance, we was at a car show and the master cylinder side was in the sun and it done it....not really had to much issue with the front brake master cylinder doing it...it has happened a few times but it was hot as hell and ofcourse bike was in the sun...

Has anyone had this happen to them. On my 2010 Bagger and on my 2004 Chopper (when I had it still) when the weather got really hot and humid my rear brake on the bagger would I guess hang up or drag. I noticed the rear brake pedel would be harder to push. I did rebuild the rear calipar. On the Chopper the front brake would hang up. It makes it hard to push the bike when the brakes are dragging. After the bike sits in the shade and cools down there normal again. Was wondering if with the heat and humidity it would build up pressure and cause the brakes to drag? Now this hasn't happen to my other bikes.

Your compensating port hole is clogged (half clogged). This prevents expanding brake fluid from returning to the master cylinder reservoir. As the brake fluid continues to expand due heat.

Paul.
 

awg

Guru
OK people, here is what I found. When I was rebuilding the calipar, the inside has no rust, no scratches, nothing weird. Just a smooth bore. The vent hole on the top of the cover is clear. I can see light through it. The fluid is right up to the top. What I noticed when this happened, the piston or rod that comes out of the master cylinder doesn't come out all the way. Which makes the brake lever have play. Then over time, like this morning everything is fine. Pedal is where it should be, rod is extended all the way. I will most likely bleed the rear brakes again. And make sure the fluid is not up to the top. Then I'll see how that goes.
 

knothead

Second Chance Customs
DOT 5 likes to absorb water, heat water and it expands. If you have this happen, I'd flush the system to be safe.
And flushing the brake system is good maintenance anyway.
Yes sir you are correct forsure...i flush mine every year or so depending on how much i ride...thats why i wrapped my pipes to help from the heating of the aluminum and sweating from hot to cold...helps with the cam sensor also
 

awg

Guru
Well I flushed it out again. We will see if this happens again. I did not fill it up to the top this time. And if I continue to have problems, can the master cylinder be rebuilt. I know the one on the handle bar can be. But what about the foot master cylinder? I never seen a kit for doing it. And from looking at it, it looks like a solid piece.
 

awg

Guru
Well I flushed it out again. We will see if this happens again. I did not fill it up to the top this time. And if I continue to have problems, can the master cylinder be rebuilt. I know the one on the handle bar can be. But what about the foot master cylinder? I never seen a kit for doing it. And from looking at it, it looks like a solid piece.
I decided to rebuild the master cylinder. It must be sticking or something. Don't want to take any chances.
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
... here is what I found... the piston or rod that comes out of the master cylinder doesn't come out all the way. Which makes the brake lever have play. Then over time, like this morning everything is fine.
It goes... I load the lever/pedal, release, then I break the banjo; capture the oil; spin the wheel. The wheel is now free to spin. However, it shows I have a sloppy lever/pedal. That says the piston inside did not follow the lever back, thus the slop at the lever/pedal.

Bleeding is a waste of time. How clean is the master's rez? As Paul stated, there are two holes that need to be clean. The large hole is gulping a huge amount fluid to compress. The smaller hole is the return and can slowly bleed off. So the inspection and the caution is; I use a blunt enough tip so as not to puncture the rubber seal being stuck at the hole? And a small enough diameter to enter the hole. Because the piston might be in the way of cleaning the hole, you wait for it to return fully. Then you can see if it's clear by watching the oil spout out of the rez on return. And when it comes out on lever/pedal release, it pushes up and out of the little rez hole like a geyser. Blanket the paint job first.

Lever/pedal remains the same after hole cleaning/inspection, then it's new rubber parts... is the swelling and dragging of aged rubber... if... not gunk inside hanging up a reusable rubber part.

Paul, ever get that light problem fixed?
 

pauly

Active Member
Yes sir you are correct forsure...i flush mine every year or so depending on how much i ride...thats why i wrapped my pipes to help from the heating of the aluminum and sweating from hot to cold...helps with the cam sensor also

Dot 5 will NOT absorb water or moisture. If water gets in the system it will pool in the lowest
part which is your caliper and changing fluid by bleeding will NOT get it out.
You must split the caliper and clean it in order to get the water out.

Paul.
 

awg

Guru
Well I thought I would report back on my brake issue. I first rebuilt the rear calipar. That wasn't the problem. I then rebuilt the master cylinder. That was the problem. The little piston thing was stuck inside the bore. It caused the pressure to build and kept my rear brakes dragging. So all is good now.
 

Diesel Dan

Well-Known Member
Excellent find my man...My Bikes doing the same shit right now...Gonna rebuild both front and rear master cylinders...
Hopefully this will fix it......
 
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