Bike falls on its face in upper RPMS? Bigger intermediate jet? Woods 650 cam

Energy One

Mastiff Rider64

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Supporting Member
All big dogs 05 and later are epa regulated. Same valves, same compression, epa cams. The E carb doesn't signify an epa engine. They thought they needed the restrictors to pass the new laws. When they realized the g carb was still epa compliant, they went back to it. It's possible there were some 06's that had the restrictors and e carb, but they had to be pretty rare. I used to hang out at the dealer, and all of the 06's I saw had the G.
Well my 06 Mastiff was detuned. It came with all the restrictions even an e carb stock. I spent a lot of money with S&S to ship everything I needed to undetune mine. Which was jugs, carb, valves, springs, heads and all. Well over 4,000 in parts and labor.
 

mleach72

Active Member
Well my 06 Mastiff was detuned. It came with all the restrictions even an e carb stock. I spent a lot of money with S&S to ship everything I needed to undetune mine. Which was jugs, carb, valves, springs, heads and all. Well over 4,000 in parts and labor.
Hmm, yours is the first '06 I've ever heard of with an E carb. Definitely rare. Just out of curiosity, what is your engine code? Yours should start with "GE".

Yeah, to get the bdm 117 up to s&s specs requires getting the compression over 10:1, machine the heads for 2" valves, and install a 600 cam. Of course, you can get more extreme than that, but that is what is required to make a bdm 117 identical to one directly from s&s.
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
Are we more like a low mph and low rpm and then whack the throttle open? Does it run without a falling face if you open the throttle slower so the rpm catch up? Could this be wrist rather than jetting? Only the OP knows for sure.
 

King Lear

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Are we more like a low mph and low rpm and then whack the throttle open? Does it run without a falling face if you open the throttle slower so the rpm catch up? Could this be wrist rather than jetting? Only the OP knows for sure.
No it doesn't matter if you go slow or fast with the throttle at about 3500 to 4k it hits a wall just stutters then fires a few times then stutters and just goes back and forth until you get below 3500 rpm then runs fine
 

Mastiff Rider64

Active Member
Supporting Member
Hmm, yours is the first '06 I've ever heard of with an E carb. Definitely rare. Just out of curiosity, what is your engine code? Yours should start with "GE".

Yeah, to get the bdm 117 up to s&s specs requires getting the compression over 10:1, machine the heads for 2" valves, and install a 600 cam. Of course, you can get more extreme than that, but that is what is required to make a bdm 117 identical to one directly from s&s.
Thats why i ordered all new parts. New cylinders, heads, valves, springs, rocker boxes because mine had the TP ones originally, new carb, .600 cam, thunder heart ignition, i cant remember everything mainly because it was back in 2015 i think. I know BDM had closed by this time. But i know it was a lot. Then got 500 miles on the motor and it blew. Sent it to S&S to find out why and it turned out to be workmenship by an S&S certified mechanic. So S&S helped me out once i shared emails and text between the mechanic and myself. Ended up with a S&S 124 from the speed shop before it closed that was built for someone else who backed out of the deal. Got it for a steal. And couldnt be happier with this motor.
 

Mikeinjersey

Active Member
No it doesn't matter if you go slow or fast with the throttle at about 3500 to 4k it hits a wall just stutters then fires a few times then stutters and just goes back and forth until you get below 3500 rpm then runs fine
This latest description makes me think you may have an ignition system failure. Check your plugs and wires. They could be breaking down under the stress of the higher rpms.
While your waiting for your new jets to come in pull your main and clean it . Can't hurt and only takes a short time to do it.
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
What Mike said. Change the plugs. Old plugs look dry and heavy black soot = rich. Maybe a photo shot of both plugs and some might tell what it's running like. Also, this kills two birds. See if the plugs are old and fouled. A fresh look at the plug's porcelain. Instant black soot on fresh plugs, it's too rich.
 

King Lear

Member
Supporting Member
This latest description makes me think you may have an ignition system failure. Check your plugs and wires. They could be breaking down under the stress of the higher rpms.
While your waiting for your new jets to come in pull your main and clean it . Can't hurt and only takes a short time to do it.
Thats on tomorrow nights agenda. I dont even know what size intermediate or main jets are in it. So I planned to drop the bowl and see what I have along with checking the plugs out
 

King Lear

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Here are the plugs, neither was tight, the rear cylinder plug wire just about came off on its own as soon as I touched it. It may have been knocked loose from being shipped from SC to TX to NO to KY then to me in TN. Also the gaps I widened to .040, they were at about .030. So before I do any work I am going to take it out tomorrow and see if it made a difference. The plugs look likes its running a little rich to me.
 

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Mikeinjersey

Active Member
Thats on tomorrow nights agenda. I dont even know what size intermediate or main jets are in it. So I planned to drop the bowl and see what I have along with checking the plugs out
Do one thing at a time. You checked/replaced your plugs/wires now test ride before moving on. When troubleshooting it's always best to test after each attempted fix. Process of elimination. That way you learn for the future. Extreme example to consider: if you replaced your whole engine the problem would be gone but you would not know what fixed it.
TIP: When you ultimately drop your fuel bowl look out for a very small O-ring that may drop out and make sure you put it back or replace when you reassemble. It's called the ejector nozzle O-ring.
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
What Mike said. Except, throw the new plugs in first. That's a one thing at a time. It's more like starting from the bottom and go backwards. In other words, ground is first, so plugs go to ground = No joy; then wires; then coil; etc.

No oil down threads... I will buy that engine from you. Not sooty at the plugs. Looks like a new set of plugs might just do it... just guessing. Cause it's really not overly rich. More like putt-putt rich. We have a dirty air cleaner element?
 

King Lear

Member
Supporting Member
What Mike said. Except, throw the new plugs in first. That's a one thing at a time. It's more like starting from the bottom and go backwards. In other words, ground is first, so plugs go to ground = No joy; then wires; then coil; etc.

No oil down threads... I will buy that engine from you. Not sooty at the plugs. Looks like a new set of plugs might just do it... just guessing. Cause it's really not overly rich. More like putt-putt rich. We have a dirty air cleaner element?
The air filters are clean, it has the S&S dual induction ac
 

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Honestly my 107 was falling off the mid range and then blasting off in the high end after I switched air intake. We tried 5-6 different jets and it just got worst. I listed to a very smart person and took the Super G off and put a Mikuni 48 on and holy shit did my dog wake up!! By far the biggest game changer I have done to my bike!14946F13-26F5-4820-8163-2070305091A9.jpeg
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
What life said. Take a slurpee cup type size, duct tape, a sock, and trombone the air opening. The whack open is the problem so you compensate with fuel being pulled to meet that vac's balance.

EDIT: Dual K&N? Cup the one opening closed and try with one air cleaner element.
 
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