And the dog had been running so good
- Thread starter BadBrad
- Start date
Five Five
Well-Known Member
brad
check your woodruff keys # 78 - in the diagram, if you tear it down that far ....if you sheared a key it cant scavenge.
BadBrad
2005 Pitbull
I could see the seat and didn't see anything. But now you have me wondering if I saw it well enough. Not that much trouble to take another peek and see. I'm sipping a beer and haven't added oil back to the tank yet. Something damn sure made it screw up. I was hoping I would see something and say I fixed it. Better have one more look.
BadBrad
2005 Pitbull
I didn't get that far into it. If it doesn't scavange, then that will most likely be my next course of action. If it does,
then I'll ride that dog and see how it acts with all that oil out of the sump.
BadBrad
2005 Pitbull
No oil flow
After inspecting the check valve ball, it looked clean. I put 3 quarts of oil back in the bike and fired it up with a thermometer in the oil tank. There was no change in temperature and the oil tank level dropped. For what ever reason, the scavenger pump is not circulating oil back into the tank. Could the oil filter be plugged? Is it time to pull the pump and inspect? I'm sure if I pull the sump plug, I'll find my missing oil.
After inspecting the check valve ball, it looked clean. I put 3 quarts of oil back in the bike and fired it up with a thermometer in the oil tank. There was no change in temperature and the oil tank level dropped. For what ever reason, the scavenger pump is not circulating oil back into the tank. Could the oil filter be plugged? Is it time to pull the pump and inspect? I'm sure if I pull the sump plug, I'll find my missing oil.
Relic
Active Member
If you want to be possitive it's not scaveging and eliminate your oil filter question, just pull the filter off and start the bike.
If it's pumping oil up to the filter, it's scaveging.
If oil does not pump out the filter fitting, looks like the pump is coming off.
If it's pumping oil up to the filter, it's scaveging.
If oil does not pump out the filter fitting, looks like the pump is coming off.
Last edited:
05 old dog
Well-Known Member
good tip relic....keep us posted brad...
john sachs
Well-Known Member
From pump, through engine, into filter = Pressure side is working. :up:
From engine sump/cam area to tank if it's NOT returning, scavange side of pump is NOT working. Prolly sheared key. Side closest to the engine case.The longer gears. :angry:
R & I of oil pump can be tricky for first timers. There are critical things to watch out for.
John
From engine sump/cam area to tank if it's NOT returning, scavange side of pump is NOT working. Prolly sheared key. Side closest to the engine case.The longer gears. :angry:
R & I of oil pump can be tricky for first timers. There are critical things to watch out for.
John
BadBrad
2005 Pitbull
Before I pull the pump, I'm going to install a new filter and check the lines from the filter back to oil tank for any obstruction. From reading the oil pump removal in my manual, it sure seems like there's a lot involved. I'll definitely call for help before pulling the pump. Thanks all. I'll keep you posted on any progress.From pump, through engine, into filter = Pressure side is working. :up:
From engine sump/cam area to tank if it's NOT returning, scavange side of pump is NOT working. Prolly sheared key. Side closest to the engine case.The longer gears. :angry:
R & I of oil pump can be tricky for first timers. There are critical things to watch out for.
John
BadBrad
2005 Pitbull
Update
A little update. After working on honey-do's all weekend, I finally got around to trouble shooting the bike again. I changed the oil filter. drained the sump (again), pulled the check valve/ball and inspected it again just to make sure I didn't miss something, pulled the return line off the oil tank and fired up the motor. Nothing coming out the return line. I pulled the new oil filter off and used compressed air to blow the line back from the filter to the tank. It's clear. I fired the motor up with the oil filter off to see if oil was getting to the filter. Nothing! With the guidance of a top notch mechanic and some help from anyone that wants to join in, I'm pulling the pump. More than likely, the scavange gear has sheared a key. I do have lots of pictures thanks to my buddy "The DeadOne". That's right. He's still alive!!!!!!! And like E. F. Hutton, when John Sachs talks, people listen. And so do I. I can tell you that if John says it's "tricky" getting everything back together, then I'm in for a challenge. I'll keep you posted.
A little update. After working on honey-do's all weekend, I finally got around to trouble shooting the bike again. I changed the oil filter. drained the sump (again), pulled the check valve/ball and inspected it again just to make sure I didn't miss something, pulled the return line off the oil tank and fired up the motor. Nothing coming out the return line. I pulled the new oil filter off and used compressed air to blow the line back from the filter to the tank. It's clear. I fired the motor up with the oil filter off to see if oil was getting to the filter. Nothing! With the guidance of a top notch mechanic and some help from anyone that wants to join in, I'm pulling the pump. More than likely, the scavange gear has sheared a key. I do have lots of pictures thanks to my buddy "The DeadOne". That's right. He's still alive!!!!!!! And like E. F. Hutton, when John Sachs talks, people listen. And so do I. I can tell you that if John says it's "tricky" getting everything back together, then I'm in for a challenge. I'll keep you posted.
BadBrad
2005 Pitbull
Update!!
Well, I finally got around to breaking down the dog and pulling the oil pump. To be so unlucky, I guess I was lucky that the only damage to the pump was a sheared key on the scavenger gear. Next to the gear was what appeared to be half of a 5/16 lock washer. I've been into the top end of the bike to know that I have 2 of those that are used on the 5/16 bolts that hold down the rocker box stand (middle part of rocker box). So, I pull the rocker box cover and find that both washers had broken!
Half the washers were still on the bolts, half of one was still in the top of the rocker box and half of the other is what found its way down into my pump and jammed between the gears, causing my gear to shear the key. After looking a little more, the whole rocker stand was loose. One of the 5/16 bolts had stripped and I guess along with vibration, caused the other bolts to loosen up and break the lock washers under both bolts. I'll be putting in a heli coil or insert, depending on what I find once I get into it. Total cost is probably less than $50 for an oil pump kit and heli coils. Time/labor is on the house since I'm doing the work and have this forum along with the "other site" helping me along the way. Tearing it down is always easy. Now to fix it and put it back together......without any extra parts lying around.
Well, I finally got around to breaking down the dog and pulling the oil pump. To be so unlucky, I guess I was lucky that the only damage to the pump was a sheared key on the scavenger gear. Next to the gear was what appeared to be half of a 5/16 lock washer. I've been into the top end of the bike to know that I have 2 of those that are used on the 5/16 bolts that hold down the rocker box stand (middle part of rocker box). So, I pull the rocker box cover and find that both washers had broken!
Half the washers were still on the bolts, half of one was still in the top of the rocker box and half of the other is what found its way down into my pump and jammed between the gears, causing my gear to shear the key. After looking a little more, the whole rocker stand was loose. One of the 5/16 bolts had stripped and I guess along with vibration, caused the other bolts to loosen up and break the lock washers under both bolts. I'll be putting in a heli coil or insert, depending on what I find once I get into it. Total cost is probably less than $50 for an oil pump kit and heli coils. Time/labor is on the house since I'm doing the work and have this forum along with the "other site" helping me along the way. Tearing it down is always easy. Now to fix it and put it back together......without any extra parts lying around. 
BadBrad
2005 Pitbull
Are we talking about boating or biking? Looks like this coming weekend is going to be a great weekend for either, but the boat takes priority. The test run last week shows all is ready. R U?I'll come help you Brad
I'll talk to the 3rd guy fishing and make sure our schedules are set to go and give you some details. I hope to get the bike back together tonight. Rocky is working, so not much else to do other than work on the Dog.
john sachs
Well-Known Member
Check the oil pmp at the sides the gears run in for score marks. If there are some replace the whole pump. :bang:
John
John
BadBrad
2005 Pitbull
I checked earlier, but I'll take a closer look. I was probably looking for something major and just glad to see it looked close to normal. I'm going to check the rocker box stand to make sure it's still flat and use some die penetrant to check it for cracks. It probably took a pounding being loose inside the rocker box. But it never made any noise like something was loose and rattling around. I barely had enough room to pull the pump shaft from the hole. Thought I was going to have to loosen the tranny for a minute there. I'll post some pics later this evening. Jeff, aka TheDeadOne, just finished replacing a pump that was trashed. He's still alive and I wish he were still around here. He's always lending a helping hand, like many others here. There is still life after being banned!!!
BadBrad
2005 Pitbull
Pump pics
Here are a few pics of the pump and the piece of lock washer that caused the key to shear. Another odd finding was all the aluminum that was in the breather gear. All I can figure out is that it's been there since I dropped a valve and trashed the head, cylinder and knocked a hole in the piston. I had just bought the Dog and wasn't familiar enough with doing my own wrenching back then. Probably just over 2 years ago. Most of the chucks of aluminum are smoothed off as if they have been in a tumbler, kinda like what the breather gear reminds me of. I'll inspect the rocker box closer when I get them off tonight to make sure half the stand didn't disentigrate and find it's way into my breather gear. But my dog is running great. Just not returning oil back to the tank.
1st pic: looking down into the breather gear chamber after the breather gear was pulled
2nd pic: All the chunks of Aluminum that was in the breather gear chamber
3rd pic: The pump shaft with the sheared key
4th pic: the broken piece of lock washer that came from the rocker box and found its way to the pump and caused the gear to shear a key.
5th pic: After reading John's advice to closely inspect for marks/scars, I notice that the scavenger gear has 3 grooves cut. They don't look critical, but I'm sure John has seen this before. So, is this bad enough to warrent buying a new pump?
Here are a few pics of the pump and the piece of lock washer that caused the key to shear. Another odd finding was all the aluminum that was in the breather gear. All I can figure out is that it's been there since I dropped a valve and trashed the head, cylinder and knocked a hole in the piston. I had just bought the Dog and wasn't familiar enough with doing my own wrenching back then. Probably just over 2 years ago. Most of the chucks of aluminum are smoothed off as if they have been in a tumbler, kinda like what the breather gear reminds me of. I'll inspect the rocker box closer when I get them off tonight to make sure half the stand didn't disentigrate and find it's way into my breather gear. But my dog is running great. Just not returning oil back to the tank.
1st pic: looking down into the breather gear chamber after the breather gear was pulled
2nd pic: All the chunks of Aluminum that was in the breather gear chamber
3rd pic: The pump shaft with the sheared key
4th pic: the broken piece of lock washer that came from the rocker box and found its way to the pump and caused the gear to shear a key.
5th pic: After reading John's advice to closely inspect for marks/scars, I notice that the scavenger gear has 3 grooves cut. They don't look critical, but I'm sure John has seen this before. So, is this bad enough to warrent buying a new pump?
Last edited:
BadBrad
2005 Pitbull
UPdate!!!
I finally got the dog put back together. At first I thought I had found a pump body on ebay just like mine, but after futher questions were asked, the pump was slightly different and even though it looked the same, the oil pressure was different. So, I used my pump body, replaced the key on the scavenger pump and repaired (heli coiled) the stripped out bolt hole in the rocker box that initially caused the washer to break and eventually end up causing the gear to shear the key. Thanks everyone for your input and help. Definitely a pain in the ass for a first timer, but with the help of forum members, saved a ton of money. I think I paid about $20 for the pump repair kit. That along with new oil was my only expense for this repair. And now I have a little knowledge on pumps (which actually makes me quite dangerous!). Again, thanks all for ur help. The dog is running great!
I finally got the dog put back together. At first I thought I had found a pump body on ebay just like mine, but after futher questions were asked, the pump was slightly different and even though it looked the same, the oil pressure was different. So, I used my pump body, replaced the key on the scavenger pump and repaired (heli coiled) the stripped out bolt hole in the rocker box that initially caused the washer to break and eventually end up causing the gear to shear the key. Thanks everyone for your input and help. Definitely a pain in the ass for a first timer, but with the help of forum members, saved a ton of money. I think I paid about $20 for the pump repair kit. That along with new oil was my only expense for this repair. And now I have a little knowledge on pumps (which actually makes me quite dangerous!). Again, thanks all for ur help. The dog is running great!
Thanks for the update Brad, glad you are up and running again. :2thumbs:
Carlos
Carlos