2004 BD CHOPPER , turn key no power

[ARBNRANGER]

Hey guys, am trying to see if anyone else has encountered this as an attempt to narrow down my focus area and try to troubleshoot and get the bike up and running… Am mechanically capable/ inclined…

purchased the bike last week and the owner informed me of his issue with bike, which played into getting the bike for so low of a price… That being said… This is what the owner gave me for info on what transpired:

The last time I use the bike, I hit the starter switch. It turned on the motor, but the starter never disengaged and it drained the battery. Since the motor never disengage for the starter, I needed to let the battery drain to get it out of gear. After that, I parked it and never attempted to repair it. But the battery was only about an app year-old in the RIP was working fine. Bike was working fine.

any thoughts or ideas? Had battery tested and shiws good. But turn the ignition key to”ON” and no power anywhere…. Have checked power and ground in and out of RIP EHC and shows good as well… but nothing turns on at all….

 

[SCC007]

So a good battery is generally one of the biggest aspects of this process - age and even testing can not necessarily be a good indicator. DEKA battery seem to be the best so far.
As for the starter I have seen where the solenoid contacts "weld" and can cause the starter once hit to run until it is either disconnected from the battery or the battery is without power. I would start by making sure the battery is disconnected and then take the cover off the solenoid of the starter and check the contacts. Then I would disconnect the starter main wire from the battery to diagnosis the rest of the electrical. There is generally a fuse and/or circuit breaker, check they are good. From there, wiring diagrams of the bike that you can trace wires and make sure switches and keyed switch are working.
Let us know what you find and can help further diagnose.

AIRBORNE!

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Welcome from NJ,

This schematic will help. When you troubleshoot the starter disconnect the green wire which is connected to the solenoid . When you hit the start button you will see 12 vdc (give or take) if you read the wire to ground. If the voltage remains after you hit the off button, the button could be shorting. If the voltage remains after you turn off the key I would be guessing the EHC needs testing. https://www.wildsteedworx.com/ may still do that for a fee.

 

[ARBNRANGER]

So when I turn the key “ON” i get no headlight ko speedo power up , nothing

but can see the red LED light on the fuse from the RIP KIT EHC lit up so its getting power to it.
But it is like the rest of the bike is getting no power

 

[knothead]

This is a little note for future reference for folks to remember incase the starter hang on you , just pull the green wire off the starter and it will stop turning the starter over.

You talking about the inline fuse holder that has a little red light on the side of it?...if that light is lit up the fuse is blown

 

[ARBNRANGER]

Ok. UPDATE… so having today off I could not resist putting my hands on the bike so I can bring her back to life….
Ao changed out the inline fuse and out in a new battery. Red indicator light on inline fuse turned off now…

i connected the 2 wires behind the ignition key to see if i could get power to the bike. I did remove the GREEN wire from the top of the starter/ so no power to engage the starter….

Headlights and turn signals all came on…. YES… small win… then made sure in neutral and went and DOSCONNECTED the ignition key switch wires.. So no turned on power on the bike. Then I connected the GREEN wire back to the starter. And without bike turned on it began trying to start/ the starter was engaging….

so now i got power. But got to figure out why the bike is trying to start with bike turned off

 

[knothead]

Ok. UPDATE… so having today off I could not resist putting my hands on the bike so I can bring her back to life….
Ao changed out the inline fuse and out in a new battery. Red indicator light on inline fuse turned off now…

i connected the 2 wires behind the ignition key to see if i could get power to the bike. I did remove the GREEN wire from the top of the starter/ so no power to engage the starter….

Headlights and turn signals all came on…. YES… small win… then made sure in neutral and went and DOSCONNECTED the ignition key switch wires.. So no turned on power on the bike. Then I connected the GREEN wire back to the starter. And without bike turned on it began trying to start/ the starter was engaging….

so now i got power. But got to figure out why the bike is trying to start with bike turned off

The contact are stuck together in the starter..take the 3 bolts out on the end of the starter...remove the contacts and sand them and put them back in or put new contacts in it...make sure when install them you stay squared up with the innner contacts so they contact properly...problem will be fixed

 

[chubs]

I agree with what Knot said, But I think he forgot one important step. Before you tear into the starter, disconnect the battery. If you go tearing into it with it "hot" ya stand a good chance of messing things up. Ask me how I know.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Ok. UPDATE… so having today off I could not resist putting my hands on the bike so I can bring her back to life….
Ao changed out the inline fuse and out in a new battery. Red indicator light on inline fuse turned off now…

i connected the 2 wires behind the ignition key to see if i could get power to the bike. I did remove the GREEN wire from the top of the starter/ so no power to engage the starter….

Headlights and turn signals all came on…. YES… small win… then made sure in neutral and went and DOSCONNECTED the ignition key switch wires.. So no turned on power on the bike. Then I connected the GREEN wire back to the starter. And without bike turned on it began trying to start/ the starter was engaging….

so now i got power. But got to figure out why the bike is trying to start with bike turned off

I can't understand you, except the part that you replaced the fuse and now have power to the bike. You should only have 12vdc to trigger the starter solenoid after you turn the key on, select run and then Start. At that time you should hear your compression releases click and at the same time see the voltage on the green wire jump to 12vdc.
Your switches or EHC itself could be the problem. You can use this video to help troubleshoot the switch. Again , keep the green wire disconnected and read the voltage instead of cranking the starter.
Depending on where the fuse was in the circuit the short could have taken out the EHC with it.

 

[knothead]

I can't understand you, except the part that you replaced the fuse and know have power to the bike. You should only have 12vdc to trigger the starter solenoid after you turn the key on, select run and then Start. At that time you should hear your compression releases click and at the same time see the voltage on the green wire jump to 12vdc.
Your switches or EHC itself could be the problem. You can use this video to help troubleshoot the switch. Again , keep the green wire disconnected and read the voltage instead of cranking the starter.
Depending on where the fuse was in the circuit the short could have taken out the EHC with it.

Because the contacts are stuck together in the starter and the green wire hooked up it will back flow current to the handle bar switch and back feed itself...even with the key off or or the wires off the key switch it will back flow threw the board and make the starter stay engaged if the contacts in the starter are stuck...thats the reason i was saying in a earlier post if the starter hangs and stays engaged just pull the green wire and that will always stop the starter...turning the key switch off wont stop the starter from staying engaged because of the back flow of current going threw the green wire going to the handle bar switch...i have seen this happen several times..


Also a weak battery will make contacts in the starter hang...it takes just as much power to disengage a starter as it takes to engage it

 

[ARBNRANGER]

Ypu guys have been a great help


thanks big time

So got the bike running. But the wire coming off the EXH that connects to theGREEN starter wire i dosconnect once the bike starts and is running…. So something is causing the starter to stay engaged like you all have said…. For ne at this point is a small win that i got power throughout the bike now and was able to get it running…i pulled out the solenoid. Cleaned it and applied dielectric grease onto contact points as well and closed it all back up….

but with bike off i just touched the green wire to the wire off the ECH wire and it tried to start

I would think the handlebar starter button would not be sending a signal with the bike turned off. So am still trying to determine whats doing it.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Ypu guys have been a great help


thanks big time

So got the bike running. But the wire coming off the EXH that connects to theGREEN starter wire i dosconnect once the bike starts and is running…. So something is causing the starter to stay engaged like you all have said…. For ne at this point is a small win that i got power throughout the bike now and was able to get it running…i pulled out the solenoid. Cleaned it and applied dielectric grease onto contact points as well and closed it all back up….

but with bike off i just touched the green wire to the wire off the ECH wire and it tried to start

I would think the handlebar starter button would not be sending a signal with the bike turned off. So am still trying to determine whats doing it.

The EHC gets the powerup signal from the key switch. The off/run button signals the EHC to turn on the ignition and allows the start button to signal the EHC to trigger the starter and compression releases at the same time when depressed.
Put a meter on green wire and see which event puts the 12vdc to crank the starter. Keep in mind you can listen for the Compression releases (approx 1sec ) to trigger at the same time the 12vdc is provided to the starter solenoid.
The EHC also has fault lights which may give you info. The ignition module also has a light that will come on when the Run button is selected.
In my opinion the likely suspects are the PCB brd and/or the EHC itself but you need to troubleshoot first before you install any new parts. Shorts can be very tricky to say the least. Come back with the results you find.

 

[EastTxDog]

I can't understand you, except the part that you replaced the fuse and know have power to the bike. You should only have 12vdc to trigger the starter solenoid after you turn the key on, select run and then Start. At that time you should hear your compression releases click and at the same time see the voltage on the green wire jump to 12vdc.
Your switches or EHC itself could be the problem. You can use this video to help troubleshoot the switch. Again , keep the green wire disconnected and read the voltage instead of cranking the starter.
Depending on where the fuse was in the circuit the short could have taken out the EHC with it.

Thanks for posting this video.
My headlight isn't working, so the PCB board is where I'm going next.
I'm only getting about a volt to the bulb harness, which may just be a line short,
but hopefully this test will get me goin in the right direction.
Cheers!

 

[EastTxDog]

Well that was an interesting exercise,
but shoulda figured since both high and low beams were out,
probably lookin at chasin wires.
Cheers!

 

[HMAN]

Well that was an interesting exercise,
but shoulda figured since both high and low beams were out,
probably lookin at chasin wires.
Cheers!

If both lights are out, the bike will not run. Replace the bulb and ck the connector, if its plastic it may be melted causing the issue. Replace it with a ceramic plug if damaged.

 

[EastTxDog]

If both lights are out, the bike will not run. Replace the bulb and ck the connector, if its plastic it may be melted causing the issue. Replace it with a ceramic plug if damaged.

Bike runs fine, just no headlight.
Initially purchased a new bulb prior to troubleshooting.
Checked continuity from the bulb plug to the EHC connector - all three wires good.
Ground is good.
Gonna try some dielectric grease on the EHC connector next.
May be the EHC, tho.
Cheers!

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

Because the contacts are stuck together in the starter and the green wire hooked up it will back flow current to the handle bar switch and back feed itself...even with the key off or or the wires off the key switch it will back flow threw the board and make the starter stay engaged if the contacts in the starter are stuck...thats the reason i was saying in a earlier post if the starter hangs and stays engaged just pull the green wire and that will always stop the starter...turning the key switch off wont stop the starter from staying engaged because of the back flow of current going threw the green wire going to the handle bar switch...i have seen this happen several times..


Also a weak battery will make contacts in the starter hang...it takes just as much power to disengage a starter as it takes to engage it

I disagree.
The starter can not back feed to the handlebar switches -- there is no electrical path for that.
As to the weak battery making contacts hangs and it taking as much power to disengage again this is incorrect -- the disengagment of the solenoid is NOT an electrical POWERED option. It is purely mechanical -- the SPRING that the magnetic force over rides to PUSH the solenoid forward WINS again when the electrity ir removed from the solenoid coil -- no electrical power is used.

You may have seen these sympotoms but the description of the cause is incorrect.

 

[ARBNRANGER]

Update: went a few days with hands off the bike. So had got the bike running a few days ago after pulling the solenoid and cleaning it up and putting back together and replacing a new battery… i leave the GREEN wire disconnected from the starter otherwise the bike tries to start even with key in OFF position…

So a few days have gone by and went to work in it last night.. Now it would not start and brand new battery was dead.. So exchanged it for a replacement. Put in new battery and then the inline fuse it has between the circuit breaker to the EHC now keeps popping..
So i disonnected the main power cable off the battery. Replace the inline fuse and then just reattach the line from the battery to the circuit breaker and as soon as it touches the inline fuse blows…

so no power from the battery to the starter because i have that main positive disconnected…So now power until I connect power to EHC and each time is blows that inline fuse… Have not done anything else to the bike since I got it running days ago…previous owner said he had the RIP kit installed. But not sure if this EHC is the RIP kit ir what. If anyone knows what type if system this is installed? I attached a pic

 

[Rottweiler]

Not that familiar with the RIP I thought it used relays? It doesn't look like a stock EHC though?

 

[knothead]

Thats a axels ehc