A little advice please before I lose my shit. Installed a new RIP harness in 2010 K-9. Started bike and starter solenoid stay engaged and fried starter. Installed new Big Dog starter. Connected battery and headlight stays on even with key off. Disconnected connector right off key switch. Headlight still on. Also, when I connect ground cable from starter to the battery, the compression releases engage. I know I’m not that bright, but am I really that stupid? WTF!
Gonna kill myself!
- Thread starter Snips
- Start date
Did you watch the Video of the EHC installation that BigDog has on YouTube? I would definitely remove the battery and recheck all the connections on the harness.
Mr. Wright
Knows some things
After you check all your connection are in the proper order, remember, it is a electronic device, and you might have just got a bad one.
Mikeinjersey
Well-Known Member
It sounds like your EHC is toasted. If possible send it back for testing. You had an immediate issue after install with the starter solenoid not disengaging. Your headlight and compression releases may have been engaged also and just went unnoticed by you at the time. Pull the battery and EHC and read out all the wires with an ohm meter to determine if you connected the new wires correctly and are not shorted. Look for burnt wires. A shorted hand control start switch can cause issues.
Maybe address the reason you replaced your original EHC. It's possible the issue still exists and is taking out the new system.
Unfortunately no good answers.
I will definitely get started with continuing the troubleshooting process. I even had both hand control PCB’s unplugged up at the handlebars. Headlight was still on. I checked behind headlight for shorted wires…..nothing, still looks brand new. I’m thinking your concept of starting with having the EHC tested probably makes the most sense. I’ve been able to eliminate as many connectors as possible from the equation. It’s got to be the EHC. The new plug and play harness basically creates a dummy proof scenario. I’m super picky about doing things careful and neat so I know there was now damage during the installation. Damn electronics. Old school was better
Thanks. I will look for it. Much appreciated
LOL. I always walk away as soon as I get irritated, but I never give up. I don’t like people touching my stuff, but I was willing to pay a shop to add the new RIP setup. The bike sat idle all last year as I attempted to get the dealer in CT to order the harness and tell me when to trailer the bike to their shop. I’d call every couple months and they just weren’t following through. I get that everyone is short handed. I’m sure this project would not have been what they would want on the top of their list. Oh well.Definitely time to back away and get help
Do you mean that even a new car can get a flat tire? Ha. Yup, back to square one.
One last thought Mike. The reason I made the replacement was many ghostly issues. Sometimes turn key on and horn blows. Another time, key on and starter engaged. (That’ll make your asshole pucker). Another time, key on and nothing on the speedometer. Always random. Sometimes fine. Everything seemed to speak to EHC.
I’m thinking one last question before I get after it this weekend. I’ll have to trace the wires but Would the headlight be getting power directly from the ignition module or from the EHC. Either way, I’m guessing that the ignition module is shorted out in some manner because when the EHC is NOT connected to the battery and I then touch my starter ground cable to the battery…..the compression releases are activated. I’ll have to first disconnect the ignition module first to then see what is happening.
Yep those are the classic symptoms of a EHC going tits up. Shame you let someone else do the install. That’s definitely where your current problem stems from I would just about bet on it.
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Mikeinjersey
Well-Known Member
I'm having difficulty following you. The ignition switch (not module) turns on the EHC which in turn provides all power to operate all electrical functions. When the ignition switch is turned on it will light the front headlight. Then after you hit the Run and Start button the Compression releases and the starter solenoid will be activated at the same time. The headlight is temporarily turned off while the bike is cranking. To test this, disconnect the green starter solenoid wire and read for voltage when start is selected. You should hear the CR's click and see approx 12vdc on the wire at .
The battery is grounded through the starter mounting to frame. You state that when the EHC is not connected and you supply a ground to the system your CR's activate. I'm sure I'm misunderstanding what you are saying because that is virtually not possible because the voltage to operate the CR's comes from the EHC.
Back to the headlight. If your key switch is good the EHC should not continue to provide power to operate the light when the key is turned off. Pull the switch and verify it's good or bad. It's a simple mechanical switch an is either open or closed. Open gives no signal to the EHC to turn on. Closed is when it works.
I hope this is a little helpful to you.
BigDog EHC rip install tutorial. Check it out. Very detailed instructional video
Mikeinjersey
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure which schematic you are looking at. I'm looking at an 07 K9 diagram and it does not show an external (of the EHC) relay. As far as I can tell, regardless of an internal or external relay, power would be coming from the EHC so if it was disconnected as Stips stated no power would be available to operate the CR's.
I think I'm misunderstanding
Jersey Big Mike
100K mile club
Never mind -- you are correct -- was thinking about the Fuel Injectors -- my bad!I'm not sure which schematic you are looking at. I'm looking at an 07 K9 diagram and it does not show an external (of the EHC) relay. As far as I can tell, regardless of an internal or external relay, power would be coming from the EHC so if it was disconnected as Stips stated no power would be available to operate the CR's.
I think I'm misunderstanding
Jersey Big Mike
100K mile club
too many projects and schematics in my head right now as I am building some network securty tools, doing some design work and rebuilding one of my 3d printers, whie cleaning and organizing my shed and tools.
Yes -- I have TOO many projects going at one time (as usual)
Just finished a 14 hour work day. Will be investigating bike Sunday. Hopefully your info will guide me properly. Thanks for confirming that all functions go through EHC first.
Regarding my headlight: currently my key switch, is not just in the off position, it is disconnected. My battery negative cable that goes to the starter frame is disconnected from the battery. When I touch the EHC harness cable to the battery negative post, the headlight turns on.
Secondly, you did not misunderstand me regarding the CR’s. With the same scenario as above, while leaving the RIP harness negative wire disconnected, if I touch the ground cable coming from the starter frame to the negative terminal on the battery, the CR’s activate.
The main RIP harness is getting full time power from its wire that is connected to the circuit breaker. Left side of circuit breaker has a wire coming from the voltage regulator and the right side of circuit breaker has a double wire feeding the main harness along with a cable that leads up to the battery positive.
Mikeinjersey
Well-Known Member
With the key sw removed the EHC should not be able to turn on at all. I'm trying to think this through but let's give it a try. The EHC has a + wire and a - wire with the battery in-between. The key sw tells the EHC to come on. Since the sw is disconnected nothing should happen as if the key were off. Let's look at the headlight senario. The heavy cable to the starter is not needed to operate the EHC so being disconnected is irrelevant. The light gets it's power and ground from the EHC which is why the light is able to comes on when you complete the circuit by connecting the - side EHC wire to the - battery post. The electronics controlls when to provide power (+) and normally the EHC is intended to provide power to the light at start up. Obviously this should not be happening with the key sw not connected.Just finished a 14 hour work day. Will be investigating bike Sunday. Hopefully your info will guide me properly. Thanks for confirming that all functions go through EHC first.
Regarding my headlight: currently my key switch, is not just in the off position, it is disconnected. My battery negative cable that goes to the starter frame is disconnected from the battery. When I touch the EHC harness cable to the battery negative post, the headlight turns on.
Secondly, you did not misunderstand me regarding the CR’s. With the same scenario as above, while leaving the RIP harness negative wire disconnected, if I touch the ground cable coming from the starter frame to the negative terminal on the battery, the CR’s activate.
The main RIP harness is getting full time power from its wire that is connected to the circuit breaker. Left side of circuit breaker has a wire coming from the voltage regulator and the right side of circuit breaker has a double wire feeding the main harness along with a cable that leads up to the battery positive.
The Cr's also do not require the starter ground to operate. They require the EHC to be ON (with the key sw) , the on/off selected and then the start button depressed. The starter and CR operate at the same time. The cr's drop after 1 second.
It would appear that the electronics are stuck in the ON position. Did the bike ever run when it came back from the shop that installed the RIP kit? My guess is that it's miswired somehow or smoked.
I don't know if you can have the EHC tested but ask wherever you got it. If you intend to continue troubleshooting I would keep the green wire off the starter solenoid so it doesn't crank unintentionally.
Reconnect the key sw and try other functions like emergency flashes or brake lights , high beam low beam. Maybe it will give more insight to the problem.
When you resolve this problem even if you need to replace the EHC. I would recommend not connecting the EHC to the CB but rather a direct connection through a Fuse to the battery. The way you discribed the current connection the EHC would be protected from the VR shorting or Overcurrent but would leave the EHC vulnerable to a shorted Battery. Shorted batteries are not uncommon.
Good information
This morning I removed the fuel tank to check all the connections in that location. I disconnected all connections of the harness by the battery box as if starting over with a new install. I even disconnected the harness from the EHC. I reconnected everything, including the key switch. I connected everything to the battery…….this time, nothing was on. When I turned the key on, of course headlight comes on but the CR’s immediately activate and the ignition module was buzzing. When I turn the key off, everything shuts off, including the headlight. I then checked to see if you replied and thought your suggestion of disconnecting green wire from starter was a damn good idea. I’m sad to say that my previous starter was probably fine but got destroyed due to this electrical issue. I don’t want to wreck this new one I put in. After disconnecting the green wire, I turned the key on and the buzzing has stopped and the CR’s are NOT activating. I really appreciate your time!
I don’t know why but a different scenario this morning after doing the following. FYI, as mentioned a while back in these discussions, I installed the harness after about a year of trying to get the closest dealership to follow through with ordering one and scheduling with me to get it done.
This morning I removed the fuel tank to check all the connections in that location. I disconnected all connections of the harness by the battery box as if starting over with a new install. I even disconnected the harness from the EHC. I reconnected everything, including the key switch. I connected everything to the battery…….this time, nothing was on. When I turned the key on, of course headlight comes on but the CR’s immediately activate and the ignition module was buzzing. When I turn the key off, everything shuts off, including the headlight. I then checked to see if you replied and thought your suggestion of disconnecting green wire from starter was a damn good idea. I’m sad to say that my previous starter was probably fine but got destroyed due to this electrical issue. I don’t want to wreck this new one I put in. After disconnecting the green wire, I turned the key on and the buzzing has stopped and the CR’s are NOT activating. I really appreciate your time!