WANTED: S&S .600 Cam UPDATE:
- Thread starter Chillin
- Start date
cdogg556
Guru
Ron, I am just wondering? How the hell could you not tell that your bike has a cam in it or not?? 
The difference in the sound of my bike with the 585 in it V.S. the 546 is unbelievable! I can only imagine what a 600 sounds like! You didn't notice that your bike sounded different than any of your buddies bikes?
Not trying to be hard on ya, but just gotta ask!
The difference in the sound of my bike with the 585 in it V.S. the 546 is unbelievable! I can only imagine what a 600 sounds like! You didn't notice that your bike sounded different than any of your buddies bikes? Not trying to be hard on ya, but just gotta ask!
Chillin
Active Member
The exhaust is a VH 2 into1 with a Motor City Monster baffle. I took out the short nipples from the exhaust ports (torque tubes)
and that woke it up. It had a .295 idle and a .070 main jet. I went to a .315 idle and a 78 main, I think it could take a bit
more. It did not sound all that radical compared to my other engines. Remember I called S&S numerous times. It is what it is.
.
By the way, I stole these pipes for $50, the guy didn't like the looks!
and that woke it up. It had a .295 idle and a .070 main jet. I went to a .315 idle and a 78 main, I think it could take a bit
more. It did not sound all that radical compared to my other engines. Remember I called S&S numerous times. It is what it is.
.
By the way, I stole these pipes for $50, the guy didn't like the looks!
cdogg556
Guru
Nice looking bike Ron!
You know what's wierd, I got a buddy that says he has a 600 cam in his bike and he has the same 2 into 1 exhaust on his bike, I just installed a 585 in my bike a few months ago and my bike sounds more radical than his! It don't make any sense, you would think that his bike would sound more radical than mine but it don't! I wonder what the duration of the two cams are? I remember in my old 69 Chevelle with a 454 in it I I stalled a cam with moderate lift but high duration and it sounded bad ass! I wonder if the 585 has a high duration in it that makes it sound better?
Unsprung
In the Potters hand...
I called S&S to ask about my cam and they have no idea what's in it. I'd love to know what cam is in it but I'll save the tear down to do it all at once.
Jwooky
Well-Known Member
That is because it is overlap that gives the loppedy sound that has become synonymous with a big cam, not valve lift or duration.Nice looking bike Ron!
Unsprung
In the Potters hand...
That's good to know John and since the bike is down anyway, there's no better time than now. I'll know by Saturday.
Unsprung
In the Potters hand...
John, do I need to replace the gasket or is it a solid piece I can re-use? Thanks
cdogg556
Guru
Yea, Rob is right, I would have one there just in case, I never pulled mine until I installed the cam, but I was shitting bricks hoping I didn't already have a upgraded cam in the bike already! Knowing now how easy it was to do, that's why I am suggesting to pull the cover to see what's in there first
cdogg556
Guru
So does that mean that my 585 has more "overlap" than my buddies 600 lift cam? Cause mine definitely has more of that loppedy sound than his?
FrankBDPS
Well-Known Member
For all who are now saying WTF are they talking about and a couple of those who are talking and ain't got a clue WTF they are babbling about here is camshafts 101. Enjoy!
Tech Line: 662-892-1500
Hours: Monday - Friday, 8AM to 6PM CST
Forgot Password
Items: 0
Home : Tech : Cam Spec Terms
Valve Lift is the amount (usually in inches) that the valve is lifted off of its seat. It is usually measured with a dial indicator at the tip of the valve. Lobe Lift is the amount (usually in inches) that the cam lobe increases in radius above the cam base circle.
Tip: To quickly find maximum lobe lift, measure the base circle of the cam and subtract it from the thickness across the cam lobe’s highest point (see the diagram below).
Tip: Maximum valve lift can be calculated by multiplying the maximum lobe lift times the rocker ratio. For example, a 0.310" lobe lift cam yields 0.496" of valve lift when using a 1.6 ratio rocker arm.
Formula: valve lift = lobe lift x rocker ratio
What does it do?
The intake and exhaust valves need to open to let air/fuel in and exhaust out of the cylinders. Generally, opening the valves quicker and further will increase engine output. Increasing valve lift, without increasing duration, can yield more power without much change to the nature of the power curve. However, an increase in valve lift almost always is accompanied by an increase in duration. This is because ramps are limited in their shape which is directly related to the type of lifters being used, such as flat or roller.
DURATION
Duration is the angle in crankshaft degrees that the valve stays off its seat during the lifting cycle of the cam lobe.
How is it measured?
Advertised duration is the angle in crankshaft degrees that the cam follower is lifted more than a predetermined amount (the SAE standard is 0.006") off of its seat. Duration @.050" is a measurement of the movement the cam follower, in crankshaft degrees, from the point where it’s first lifted .050" off the base circle on the opening ramp side of the camshaft lobe, to the point where it ends up being .050" from the base circle on the closing ramp side of the camshaft lobe. This is the industry standard, and is a good value to use to compare cams from different manufacturers. Both are usually measured with a dial indicator and a degree wheel.
What does it do?
Increasing duration keeps the valve open longer, and can increase high-rpm power. Doing so increases the RPM range that the engine produces power. Increasing duration without a change in lobe separation angle will result in increased valve overlap.
LOBE SEPARATION
Lobe separation is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points of the intake and exhaust valves. It is the result of the placement of the intake and exhaust lobes on the camshaft.
How is it measured?
Lobe separation can be measured using a dial indicator and a degree wheel, but is usually calculated by dividing the sum of the intake centerline and the exhaust centerline by two.
What does it do?
Lobe separation affects valve overlap, which affects the nature of the power curve, idle quality, idle vacuum, etc.
OVERLAP
Overlap is the angle in crankshaft degrees that both the intake and exhaust valves are open. This occurs at the end of the exhaust stroke and the beginning of the intake stroke. Increasing lift duration and/or decreasing lobe separation increases overlap.
How is it measured?
Overlap can be calculated by adding the exhaust closing and the intake opening points. For example, a cam with an exhaust closing at 4 degrees ATDC and an intake opening of 8 degrees BTDC has 12 degrees of overlap.
But keep in mind that since these timing figures are at 0.050" of valve lift, this therefore is overlap at 0.050". A better way to think about overlap is the area that both lift curves overlap, rather than just the crankshaft angle that both valves are open. Therefore, one can see that decreasing the lobe separation only a few degrees can have a huge effect on overlap area.
What does it do?
At high engine speeds, overlap allows the rush of exhaust gasses out the exhaust valve to help pull the fresh air/fuel mixture into the cylinder through the intake valve. Increased engine speed enhances the effect. Increasing overlap increases top-end power and reduces low-speed power and idle quality.
CENTERLINES
The intake centerline is the point of highest lift on the intake lobe. It is expressed in crankshaft degrees after top dead center (ATDC). Likewise the exhaust centerline is the point of highest lift on the exhaust lobe. It is expressed in crankshaft degrees before top dead center (BTDC). The cam centerline is the point halfway between the intake and exhaust centerlines.
ADVANCE/RETARD
Advancing or retarding the camshaft moves the engine’s torque band around the RPM scale by moving the valve events further ahead or behind the movement of the piston. Typically, a racer will experiment with advancing or retarding a cam from "straight up" and see what works best for their application. Lunati camshafts are ground to provide maximum performance and are designed to be installed to the specifications listed on the cam card.
How is it measured?
A cam with a 107 degrees intake lobe centerline will actually be centered at 103 degrees ATDC when installed 4 degrees advanced.
Most Lunati camshafts have a certain amount of advance ground in. "Ground-in advance" can also be found by subtracting the intake lobe centerline from the lobe separation.
What does it do?
Advance improves low-end power and response. For a general summary of the affects of camshaft timing, refer to the following tables:
Advance
begins intake event sooner
opens intake valve sooner
builds more low-end torque
decreases piston-to-intake-valve clearance
increases piston-to-exhaust-valve clearance
Retard
delays intake event
opens intake valve later
builds more high-end power
increases piston-to-intake-valve clearance
decreases piston-to-exhaust-valve clearance
Tech Line: 662-892-1500
Hours: Monday - Friday, 8AM to 6PM CST
Items: 0
Valve Lift is the amount (usually in inches) that the valve is lifted off of its seat. It is usually measured with a dial indicator at the tip of the valve. Lobe Lift is the amount (usually in inches) that the cam lobe increases in radius above the cam base circle. Tip: To quickly find maximum lobe lift, measure the base circle of the cam and subtract it from the thickness across the cam lobe’s highest point (see the diagram below).
Tip: Maximum valve lift can be calculated by multiplying the maximum lobe lift times the rocker ratio. For example, a 0.310" lobe lift cam yields 0.496" of valve lift when using a 1.6 ratio rocker arm.
Formula: valve lift = lobe lift x rocker ratio
What does it do?
The intake and exhaust valves need to open to let air/fuel in and exhaust out of the cylinders. Generally, opening the valves quicker and further will increase engine output. Increasing valve lift, without increasing duration, can yield more power without much change to the nature of the power curve. However, an increase in valve lift almost always is accompanied by an increase in duration. This is because ramps are limited in their shape which is directly related to the type of lifters being used, such as flat or roller.
DURATION
Duration is the angle in crankshaft degrees that the valve stays off its seat during the lifting cycle of the cam lobe.
How is it measured?
Advertised duration is the angle in crankshaft degrees that the cam follower is lifted more than a predetermined amount (the SAE standard is 0.006") off of its seat. Duration @.050" is a measurement of the movement the cam follower, in crankshaft degrees, from the point where it’s first lifted .050" off the base circle on the opening ramp side of the camshaft lobe, to the point where it ends up being .050" from the base circle on the closing ramp side of the camshaft lobe. This is the industry standard, and is a good value to use to compare cams from different manufacturers. Both are usually measured with a dial indicator and a degree wheel.
What does it do?
Increasing duration keeps the valve open longer, and can increase high-rpm power. Doing so increases the RPM range that the engine produces power. Increasing duration without a change in lobe separation angle will result in increased valve overlap.
LOBE SEPARATION
Lobe separation is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points of the intake and exhaust valves. It is the result of the placement of the intake and exhaust lobes on the camshaft.
How is it measured?
Lobe separation can be measured using a dial indicator and a degree wheel, but is usually calculated by dividing the sum of the intake centerline and the exhaust centerline by two.What does it do?
Lobe separation affects valve overlap, which affects the nature of the power curve, idle quality, idle vacuum, etc.
OVERLAP
Overlap is the angle in crankshaft degrees that both the intake and exhaust valves are open. This occurs at the end of the exhaust stroke and the beginning of the intake stroke. Increasing lift duration and/or decreasing lobe separation increases overlap.
How is it measured?
Overlap can be calculated by adding the exhaust closing and the intake opening points. For example, a cam with an exhaust closing at 4 degrees ATDC and an intake opening of 8 degrees BTDC has 12 degrees of overlap.
But keep in mind that since these timing figures are at 0.050" of valve lift, this therefore is overlap at 0.050". A better way to think about overlap is the area that both lift curves overlap, rather than just the crankshaft angle that both valves are open. Therefore, one can see that decreasing the lobe separation only a few degrees can have a huge effect on overlap area.
What does it do?
At high engine speeds, overlap allows the rush of exhaust gasses out the exhaust valve to help pull the fresh air/fuel mixture into the cylinder through the intake valve. Increased engine speed enhances the effect. Increasing overlap increases top-end power and reduces low-speed power and idle quality.
CENTERLINES
The intake centerline is the point of highest lift on the intake lobe. It is expressed in crankshaft degrees after top dead center (ATDC). Likewise the exhaust centerline is the point of highest lift on the exhaust lobe. It is expressed in crankshaft degrees before top dead center (BTDC). The cam centerline is the point halfway between the intake and exhaust centerlines.
ADVANCE/RETARD
Advancing or retarding the camshaft moves the engine’s torque band around the RPM scale by moving the valve events further ahead or behind the movement of the piston. Typically, a racer will experiment with advancing or retarding a cam from "straight up" and see what works best for their application. Lunati camshafts are ground to provide maximum performance and are designed to be installed to the specifications listed on the cam card.How is it measured?
A cam with a 107 degrees intake lobe centerline will actually be centered at 103 degrees ATDC when installed 4 degrees advanced.
Most Lunati camshafts have a certain amount of advance ground in. "Ground-in advance" can also be found by subtracting the intake lobe centerline from the lobe separation.
What does it do?
Advance improves low-end power and response. For a general summary of the affects of camshaft timing, refer to the following tables:
Advance
begins intake event sooner
opens intake valve sooner
builds more low-end torque
decreases piston-to-intake-valve clearance
increases piston-to-exhaust-valve clearance
Retard
delays intake event
opens intake valve later
builds more high-end power
increases piston-to-intake-valve clearance
decreases piston-to-exhaust-valve clearance
- Google+
- Site Policies
- Product Warranty
- Contact Us
- Copyright© 2008, Lunati
FrankBDPS
Well-Known Member
So now the question remains what are the specs fo the 585 600 and 640 S&S cam shafts and what rpm range does each produce the maximum horsepower and torque? And also for those who are not concerned about horsepower and torque which one sounds the best idling thru the parking lot at you're favorite watering hole.
Inquisitive minds want to know!
Inquisitive minds want to know!
cdogg556
Guru
cdogg556
Guru
So, this is what I was saying happens with increased duration,
Increasing duration keeps the valve open longer, and can increase high-rpm power. Doing so increases the RPM range that the engine produces power. Increasing duration without a change in lobe separation angle will result in increased valve overlap.
Thus more overlap according to JJ makes it have that loppey sound that I like!
Increasing duration keeps the valve open longer, and can increase high-rpm power. Doing so increases the RPM range that the engine produces power. Increasing duration without a change in lobe separation angle will result in increased valve overlap.
Thus more overlap according to JJ makes it have that loppey sound that I like!
Unsprung
In the Potters hand...
Do I have to do that in order to pull the cover and check the cam numbers?