Trans Input Shaft flex causing breakage

[bdmridgeback]

Well, I have my bike tore down because I pulled the inspection cover over to my buddies house that is the Tech at the BDM service center and we found shavings in the breather filter. This is since the Bandit setup was installed and at that time the whole primary was cleaned out of shavings from the broken Carrier.

I have a feeling that the main input shaft of the Transmission is flexing and that is what is causing the carriers (early ones) to break even though they were weak. The Bandit carrier is about 1/8" from the inner primary surface and has come in contect with it since the Bandit was installed.

Here is a picture at the time the bandit was installed:
(You can see the right side of the bolt head by the stamped triangle has had minimal contact and isn't worn much)

Here are some of theat inner primary bolt close ups and it shows more wear on it than before:

Here the stamped triangle is about worn off and there is a deep gouge in the bolt head!

I checked the chain alignment and it doesn't need the BDM recall shim because it is damn near perfectly straight, and only a couple thousandths off.

I think the input shaft is flexing under a hard load (like higher gears with passenger and under power) and it is coming in contact with that inner surface and bolt.

I also think that the factory ones are flexing also and when they come in contact with that inner surface that weak carrier plate breaks. That is why a couple people have tore their bikes down and the inner primary is worn but the carrier hasn't broke yet.

I washed it all out, and putting it back together and will put a few hundred more miles on it. I'll then pull the primary cover and see if there has been anymore contact and take further action if needed.

 

[reloaderbmg]

how was the main clutch carrier bearing.
could you put a shim under the carrier to bring it out some more???
did you get any rubbing noises from that area ????

 

[05chop]

This is interesting for sure makes a guy think. When the whole assy is trying to move toward the case one would think that the trany input shaft is walking.I assumed there was no bearing material on the trany plug too. I guess one could install a dial on the assy and pull the clutch lever check for movement too. I see what you mean by some here have had shims and now main shaft problems. Jake you may be on to something for sure.

 

[bdmridgeback]

how was the main clutch carrier bearing.
could you put a shim under the carrier to bring it out some more???
did you get any rubbing noises from that area ????

I had Bandit install a new bearing in the new carrier when I ordered it.

The chain has to be within .030 from front to rear on the alignment so it can only be shimmed so much. Mine is almost perfectly aligned so I guess I could shim it .020 OUT of alignmetn to get more clearance and it would be within tol. I would think that if it is straight and in tolorance now it shouldn't rub the inner primary.

 

[woodbutcher]

I had Bandit install a new bearing in the new carrier when I ordered it.

The chain has to be within .030 from front to rear on the alignment so it can only be shimmed so much. Mine is almost perfectly aligned so I guess I could shim it .020 OUT of alignmetn to get more clearance and it would be within tol. I would think that if it is straight and in tolorance now it shouldn't rub the inner primary.

not a tech or engineer by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems like if you shim out the carrier, you would only be adding the chance for more torque onto a main shaft that is already prone to breaking. was the bearing that bandit replaced a ball or a needle bearing? seems like needle, in this situation, would provide better support. IMHO

 

[bdmridgeback]

I spoke with Bandit yesterday and they agree with the shaft flex and he said he sees alot of it with the Baker DSSC because of the tight tolorance because of the slim design.

He agreed with my choices, either taking the chance of shimming the front and rear gears out about .040 to give more clearance, or just run it and flush it a time or two until it wears the inner primary what it has to. He thinks that after this flush and cleaning that the next inspection will have almost no signs of wear at all.

I decided to NOT shim it because of the added extra stress and flex it will cause and just let it finish wearing in. I put some Amsoil Severe Gear in it and will run it another 500 miles and check it again for any shavings.

I am also going to follow the recommendation of a few dealers I have spoke with and get the Redline Shock proof out of my trans. I have heard alot of people talk negative about it and am draining it and replacing with Amsoil Severe Gear also.

 

[TCALZ06]

Is there anything different on your 05 from my 07?
I'm wondering why more people aren't having this problem.

I just changed my oil and trans to Amsoil. I run it in my diesel and love it.
I'm just using the 20w50 amsoil in my trans. The back of the bottle says it can be used in everything and lists the components on the label.

 

[bdmridgeback]

I don't think so, besides the heavier carrier plate. The design is still all the same. I bet if guys tore down 06 and 07 bikes that have done cams, pipes, carbs and running a little more HP than stock, they will find the shafts are flexing. May not show up much on a stock, off the showroom floor bike.

 

[woodbutcher]

Is there anything different on your 05 from my 07?
I'm wondering why more people aren't having this problem..

talked to the dealer this afternoon and they have an '07 k9 in the shop right now with a broken mainshaft.

 

[lee]

interesting stuff Jake - I may take a look at mine after some more miles too. I'm currently running the severe gear oil in my trans after flushing out the Redline - nice and smooth.

 

[woodbutcher]

interesting stuff Jake - I may take a look at mine after some more miles too. I'm currently running the severe gear oil in my trans after flushing out the Redline - nice and smooth.

lee, how did you flush? just drain and replace a couple of times or did you use a cleaning solution? :2thumbs:


hope you and lisa have a safe flight and a great time in cali!!!!!

 

[BBChopper]

If that thing is flexing that much it’s gone flippin break!!! Have you put a dial indicator on it to check the thrust play???:bang:

 

[bdmridgeback]

I was told, by a shop owner that has done every way possible, to drain the HOT Redline fluid and replace with Amsoil Severe Gear. It has to be run for 3000-5000 miles to flush it. DO NOT DRAIN UNTIL THEN. Waste of fluid before 3000-5000. He runs them 5000-7000 miles before draining and it will all come out. Baker recommends changing every 5000 miles , so he said leave it in that long. Has to be done HOT to get as much of the Redline out.

 

[woodbutcher]

I was told, by a shop owner that has done every way possible, to drain the HOT Redline fluid and replace with Amsoil Severe Gear. It has to be run for 3000-5000 miles to flush it. DO NOT DRAIN UNTIL THEN. Waste of fluid before 3000-5000. He runs them 5000-7000 miles before draining and it will all come out. Baker recommends changing every 5000 miles , so he said leave it in that long. Has to be done HOT to get as much of the Redline out.

sounds like it needs to heat up, break down, and thin out a little bit. thanks for checking. :2thumbs: :2thumbs:

 

[bdmridgeback]

He just told me that running it for 500 miles and draining it will not wash the Redline "Strawberry Jam" out, it will take most all of the 5000 miles.

 

[TCALZ06]

talked to the dealer this afternoon and they have an '07 k9 in the shop right now with a broken mainshaft.

Well thats not good. Did you happen to find out if the bike was stock and what fluid he was running?

Makes you start to wonder if the baker unit is worth the premium they charge

Thanks

 

[Vegas]

You may want to check your transmission alignment as well. That could cause your problem. You can check the runout of your clutch basket with a dial indicator front to back. Then check it from side to side and divide that number in half. Baker should have some specs on mainshaft deflection. Of course bandit is going to blame it on Big Dog. Next time you tear it down take some measurments and fing the root of the problem.