Okay guys you probably can tell that I'm upgrading my motor in my 06 k9 from my earlier posts. This is what I'm dealing with, I know alot if people advocate switching to s&s boxes and covers, but I was recently told by some reputable builders to save my money and use my current tp stuff. Okay they explained that the real problem is cast valve guides that my motor came with. They said all those infamous tp problems can be solved with bronze valve guides especially exhaust side. They said tp when equipped that way are just as good as s&s. I told them I wanted the woods w6hf cam and wood springs and they told me to keep my current roller rockers since my motor just hit 5,000 miles. We talked about other upgrades etc. But my whole purpose for this thread is to get other opinions on the subject cause the bike is leaving for the shop this weekend maybe even tomorrow.
tp rocker boxes?
- Thread starter sics6
- Start date
KaptinAmerika
Guru
Hell I would like to see if that fix works.
I prefer the TP covers over the S&S.
Beyond that I'm not a motor man.
Although I do know a little about being told someone is a good motorman and they know what their doing just to find out...THEY DON'T
But I digress and thats another story.
I prefer the TP covers over the S&S.
Beyond that I'm not a motor man.
Although I do know a little about being told someone is a good motorman and they know what their doing just to find out...THEY DON'T
But I digress and thats another story.
BadBrad
2005 Pitbull
Here's my take on it. If the TP rocker boxes have poor alignment to begin with and need bronze guides to prevent wear, you still have an alignment issue. Instead of the guides having excessive wear, you may be in jeopordy of transferring that wear to the valve itself. I did have a valve break mid-stem, causing catastrophic damage to the head, cylinder and piston. That could have been because the valve guide wore out and caused the valve stem to break, but are you willing to take that chance? You do not want a valve dropping into the cylinder. Some have not had issues with their TP rocker boxes. I'm not one of them. I went to S&S like many of the engine builders recommended. John Sachs would be a good person to give feedback to this question.
bottom line, if you stay with the TP and it ends up failing, is the mechanic going to pay for the labor and parts to rebuild if the motor goes ballistic???????????
N8KAM
Well-Known Member
Well i have my heads apart due to a guide issue in the rear head exhaust valve. Seems the valve stuck in the guide and pulled it free of the head. caught it in time to do very little damage but i was thinking about bronze guides as well. found this from S&S FLATHEADPOWER.COM-TECH TALK • View topic - Bronze vs Cast Iron valve guides. Hope it helps. I think i will stick with cast iron..
Olde Man
Active Member
It looks as if one was a little outboard and the other a little bit inboard. I know that I am leaving myself open to a little bit of criticism on this but I do not think that the alignment is that bad. Not perfect but I would not look at that wear pattern as a cause of guide failure. Mine were both outboard about a 1/16". Yours could be fixed or caused by moving the rocker box a little when you install it.
Okay I talked to them again today and they said they've done plenty of big dogs...hince their name. They are in St. Louis, But I'm not sure if It's okay to say their name on this forum, that's why I haven't yet , but I'm sure you all know now. The tech told me they actually put the same cam I want in an k9 just like mine and they just changed the valve guides to bronze. I asked about alignment problems and stuff and he said It's the cast guides that fail and cause the issues and that tp and s&s align the same when their finished. He said they've done many bikes like this and they run fine. He said imma tell u that I put together many big dog motors and yours will be fine.
BadBrad
2005 Pitbull
It's hard to see what's going one with a valve guide by looking at the top of the valve stem. Here are some pics of the guide with the springs removed so you can see what a worn valve guide looks like. The first 2 pics show the valve still in the guide with all the slop. The 3rd pic shows the intake valve guide that had no/little wear. The 4th pic shows the exhaust valve guide with the valve removed. This was with only 6K miles. :bang: Like I said before, some (like Raywood) have not had issues, but others have. It's kinda like the '05/'06 mainshafts and clutch baskets. They're known for having defects and failures. For most, it's just a matter of time. Very few escape all the gremlins.
Fibersnake
Banjo Playing PsychoBilly
Still have the TP Rocker boxes, did have the guides, springs, and other stuff replaced with all S&S right before it went out warranty due to possible guide issues (to be honest that was debatable due to the guides were still good but right at the limits, but with the issue being know at that time, they changed them out anyway).
Since then I have put over 20k on the valve train and no issues. The TP boxes are still holding up good. Hopefully will be like Raywood and never have a problem, but if I start to will go to S&S at that time. I do like the TP boxes better as far as style.
Since then I have put over 20k on the valve train and no issues. The TP boxes are still holding up good. Hopefully will be like Raywood and never have a problem, but if I start to will go to S&S at that time. I do like the TP boxes better as far as style.
Olde Man
Active Member
Mine were like RRRUFF's bottom photo. When I had my heads off to cut the jugs and chang my valve springs I put a set of light test springs on the heads so I could check the geometry with the heads off the bike. Mine were a solid 1/16" outboard of center. I then assembled the rocker boxes with various washers between the heads and the boxes and then opened and closed the valves .600 to find the optimum thickness required. My solution was to replace the rocker box gasket with .100 thick aluminum shims. This raised the rocker pivot point .100 at a 45 deg angle relative to the valve stem. This brought the wear pattern to the center of the valve stem. I cut the shims from flat stock and smeared a very very light skim coat of high temp rtv on both sides of the shim and then assembled. Use the rtv spairingly as you don't want this stuff floating around in the motor. I also polished the edges of the shims as they will show. The only short commings are that the threads in the push rods have .100 less engagement, the bolt in the rocker cover closest to the frame is harder to manage and the last one is that it is harder to seperate the rocker box from the heads in the future. I have put 10,000 miles on this assembly with no problems. This fix is probably not for everyone but I figured that I had little to loose. This is certainly open for discussion.
Attachments
Twistedspoke100
05 Mastiff
Whats the updated on your bike with keeping the TP rokers? Is it still running strong?
Twistedspoke100
05 Mastiff
Did you upgrade the came to something bigger?
Mr. Wright
Knows some things
FYI, this thread is from 2013, and most of these guys haven't been on here in a long time.
Coolbreezin
Active Member
Twistedspoke100
05 Mastiff
I saw that.... I was hoping they were still on here.