Ticket

Energy One

barhopper

Another round please
Got my first fucking ticket here in So Cal. A bunch of us rode over Ortega Hwy, stopped at hells kitchen for breakfast. Then rode into lake elsinor. Well guess what, 100's of cops, undercover cars, busting riders everywhere for loud pipes and illegal helmets. Fuck. Well, one followed me for a while, (on a motorcycle) then the lights were flashing. Wrote me up for being to loud and illegal helmet. He asked if it was a special construction, I said no, its a Bigdog. So then he asked me again and said it must be s special construction, I said did you not here me the first time?. Its a Bigdog, a manufactured bike. It was apperently
a huge sting operation that day and I along with many got busted. Saw many hand cuffed, taking pics of tattoo's ect. The mother fuckers. :angry: :angry:
 

LARS

sippin & cruzin
Sorry to hear you got caught up in that and got a ticket,but if people were gettin cuffed & pictures of their tats their is obviously a bigger problem than loud pipes & illegal helmets,wrong place,wrong time.Mother fuck the assholes that brought the cops there in the first place,again sorry to hear you got nabbed,bottoms up:cheers:
 

marinecorpsmike

Active Member
Cops around here used to pull alot of motorcycles over for loud exhaust. Since I sat as acting judge in the local municipal court about twice a month, the lawyers would continue their cases until I was on the bench. My rule was the law as applied to Harley's was unconstitutional and would dismiss the case. Jap bikes got court costs only! The cops didn't like it but there was really nothing they could do. In the last 5 years though I haven't seen one ticket for loud pipes. Maybe they have just given up.
 
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Fibersnake

Banjo Playing PsychoBilly
Barhopper,

What was the base of the exhaust. Did he conducted a test?

Here is the laws on pipe that was posted on the 50 State MC laws the other day.

"Maximum allowable A-weighted sound levels based on measurements taken at a distance of 50 ft from center lane of travel:1)Pre-1970..92dba; 2) After 1969, and before 1973...88dba; 3) After 1972, and before 1975...86dba; 4) After 1974, and before 1986...83dba; 5) After 1985...80dba (27201-27202. Motorcycle Limits). "

Did they do such a test or just an arbitrary opinion based on his hearing that it was loud. Anything other than the proper test, take it to court. May want to ask why you needed to be photgraphed for tattoos and see if that is now standard procedures for non-moving traffic violation for ALL DRIVERS?

What a bunch of BS and with all due respect to hard working and good LEO's out there, shit like this is what gives police a bad name. For everyone can be pretty sure that what they were after is not what was being presented.

Good luck on getting the ticket taken care of appropriately.
 
Sorry about the ticket. It sounds like a bigger picture allright, but they could have made 10 x better relations w/ the biker community if they just gave out verbal warnings. Stupidity from higher up brass.
good luck.
 

LARS

sippin & cruzin
They don't break out cuffs for loud pipes or eggshells,nor for tats,there is obviously a problem there in the past,so law enf.did not pick that place and time out of a hat. Possible biker gangs in the area???,possible no insurance(thats just breakin balls until your shit gets messed up and you try to collect),non reg. bikes(should'ent be on the road anyway).Loud pipes,that just gives a reason(you run the risk when you have em put on,and you know it).Fightin the ticket is a good idea,but keep in mind that the cop is an expert witness,(he has problably been trained as a highway cop),him being on a bike being able to hear yours over his @ a certin distance @ a particular speed may not be as easy just showing up,If you have stock pipes get the specs from Big Dog,If after market get specs from dealer,go with evidence,If allowed to talk to the cop @ hearing (nicely) he may dismiss it himself.Like I said he knows what he is doing,I'm sure you were not first the first ticket of his career.Again It sucks,but get as much info and specs,go to court and fight it,good luck:cheers:
 

Sparks

Chopper Junkie!
Sounds to me like they just wanted to search and do warrant checks on a bunch of bikers. The photographing of tatoos is on the legal border line and most likely under color of gang affiliation/organized crime/rico laws. All they really need to do is get you pulled over and they used the most obvious probable cause to do so. Even if you get your ticket dropped you lose a days work and they have violated your rights by taking your picture to use against you at a later date. I think this style of law enforcememnt sucks!
 

LUPHOLE

Well-Known Member
i am a strong supporter of leo and the occasional mistakes of a rookie are to be considered in context. there is a massive public relations element to law enforcement these days. it starts at the top. it needs to involve the serious business of public safety and should be built upon the idea that these people are public servents. most fit the bill with honor-and do an outstanding job. a few, at all levels, are boneheads and have no more business in law enforcement than i have behind the controls of a jumbo jet. it should be the law enforcement community who are outraged at this display of gestapo/chicken shit---not just the bikers. a little bad press goes a long way. here is one from a local paper (carroll county times) on saturday. sad!


Upset over ticket from obscure law

Editor:

At 9:34 on March 22 I unlocked the door of my business and let my employee pull his car around to the front of the store.

I asked him to stay because earlier in the week the store next to us had been robbed. He agreed, and I apologized for keeping him, as he was off the clock. He stood at the door, within five feet of his car, while I finished inside.

I was almost done when I heard him talking to someone. I went to the door and found him talking to a policeman. He said the officer was giving him a ticket.

I walked over to the Sykesville police car and asked the officer what the issue was. He replied he was giving my employee a ticket. I asked why and he said his car had been running for more than five minutes and he wasn't in it. The officer said he had observed this while he was at the gas station.

I told him I didn't know that was against the law, and I am sure my employee didn't, and a warning would be more justifiable. I also explained why I had asked my employee to stay. He replied my employee could take it to court. I then asked the officer his name.

So, how many of us know that you can't leave your car running for more than five minutes without being in the driver's seat? How many of us have warmed our car on a 35-degree night? They say police are your best protection, and maybe they are when they hold tight to the truth that they are there to serve and protect you, and not themselves.

So thank you officer for protecting me by knowing this obscure law, and for not serving the people by realizing it would have been better to educate me on it with a warning instead of a ticket.
 

LARS

sippin & cruzin
I compl. agree,Now that was BS,their are asshole cops everywhere,a warning would have been sufficed,especially after speaking with you.But what made him so observant in the first place"robbery that week",again I coulden" agree more,he was an asshole
 

barhopper

Another round please
Ok, found out the Mongles have been causing some disruption in the area lately. That was the reason for all of this. I don't have tats or affiliate with any 1 club. Just a guy on a ride. The cop had no testing equipment at all, just his opinion. I have MM pipes. I have the stock pipes still in the garage. Since the bike was ported and bigger valves, it is a little louder. I was lugging it when he was behind me. He was no more that 20 feet behind me. Asshole. I would luv to test the sound of the pipes, but who does that? I already have DOT helmet, just hate them. There was a biker bar right down the street also. I am not kidding about the amount of cops. I have never seen that many in a small area. They were everywhere. The road we were on was they only road, nowhere to go. The city of Elsinore ask for help from higher authorities to help them with the problms they were having. Why did I have to ride THAT day.
 
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KnotSo

Admin
Staff member
Did the cop take a pic of your helmet and pipes? Did he do a 20" sound test? If no pics, put the stock pipes back on and go to the local state patrol vehicle inspection office and have that give a sound test and get a copy of their findings. Do not give the insurance companies a reason to raise your rates.
 

PROFLYER

SWOLE
He was just being an asshole and using your pipes as just cause to pull you over. He's looking for gang guys, you're not one, so he felt he had to continue the asshole streak (why are some guys like this?) and write you a ticket. If you have the time, switch the pipes and take it in. If not, pay the damn ticket and move on. I would call the bars and the kitchen and let them know that you're letting every LAW ABIDING citizen you know NOT to ride their way because of the extra fuzz they called in. That'll get their attention, see if they have a local paper too, editors love this kinda stuff. Don't worry about your insurance, a fix it ticket won't affect your rates. They search for you doing stupid stuff like speeding, wreckless driving etc. etc.:cheers:
 

barhopper

Another round please
I will have to wait to see if I can just write a check. Both violations are a fix-it ticket he told me. The second cop that pulled up to see me said it was a very nice bike. He looked like he felt bad I was given a ticket by the other asshole.
 

gearsmithy

Active Member
I got pulled over by a rookie cop last fall for making an illegal right hand turn... apparently standard operating procedure here in chicago is to confiscate your license, so you have to go back to the police station to pick it up. well the guy also took my registration and proof of insurance, which i found out was *NOT* standard operating procedure when I got pulled over again on my way to the police station. The second time I was pulled over was by an old timer who really just wanted to talk about bikes. He phoned in to the rookie to bring me back my papers and stop harassing bikers for stupid shit. 10 minutes later the rookie pulls up, hands me my papers and off I went. I told the old timer that the next time I see him he's getting drunk on my tab.
 

LUPHOLE

Well-Known Member
..... I would call the bars and the kitchen and let them know that you're letting every LAW ABIDING citizen you know NOT to ride their way because of the extra fuzz they called in. That'll get their attention, see if they have a local paper too, editors love this kinda stuff. ...

barhopper, i agree with proflyer except to pay the ticket. most respectfully, i would not let this cop collect "tax" for the local jurisdiction without somebody in a black robe telling me i must pay. stand up to this peckerhead! go to court--tell the truth--tell everybody who will listen what happened. public opinion counts!!!!!!
 

Fibersnake

Banjo Playing PsychoBilly
Well the on-going with one of the 1% in the area can explain the reasons for the increase and the stops. That said it is unfortunate situation and something that we have to deal with at time, much along the lines of being overall checked by TSA and Homeland security at time due to increase threats.

That said, they stopped you, you were not and even if you were, unless you were wanted on a warrent, you would still have rights. Now that is stopped you and from your first message, it sounds like the only item would be the helment, still the question remains on the exhaust and taking pictures.

For me it would boil down to do I just pay the ticket and forget about it, or excerisze my rights and go to court and fight the exhaust. I tend to go and let the courts deal with issue.

First would be to plead to the helment if and only if, the detail law states it has to be certified and approved to DOT and/or Snell. If it doesn't say so and just says helment (highly unlikely but possible), then fight that. Also there has been times were States have said that it must be approved by State, but then the states go to DOT (been tested more than a few times and dismissed since no States conducts Testing-thus unenforceable).

On the Exhaust, regardless if you had Mean Mothers, Hookers, stock, or a set of open exhaust pipes from the backyard on it, the law states what the requirement is.

From what I can tell, if they did not do the test as per the statue, they can not say if it was within or not, regardless of how much experience, how good of hearing or anything else the officer may have. Now if he wrote you up for changing EPA/CARB approved equipment, different scenario.

I do not sugget that you change the pipes and get the stock tested, for IMHO that would make you as wrong oas the officer. Basically you would be lying in court (prejury) and if they ever found out-not good. PLus if the law states the requirements for measuring, there is no need too. Nor is a defendant required to prove otherwise, it is always the prosecution that is required to prove it, not you to prove them wrong.

So for me, it would go to court, plead to the helment, not to the exhaust. No need discussing with the officer unless he starts to just push the subject, then question him, however before you do, make sure you know the statues inside and out. Can quote them in your sleep on exhaust and including and subs and one realted.

On the tattoos, unless you want to get a lawyer and start investigating what there authority is in regards to taking pictures of such, best to just leave it alone. BTW you were not arrested were you?

If you were, most laws allow such pcitures to be taken, if not it is very iffy and could border on your rights to be treated different including gathering data unless that is a standard procedure for all motorist in CA now.

One last item, be carefull for all in PA, there is some towns that actually do have the equipment set up for measuring the db levels of exhaust and they have no issues writting the tickets. Friend of mine got one last year and, sure as shit it had the equipment used, the calibration date and specifics on it for the the ticket. He paid it !!!!
 

barhopper

Another round please
I had no tattoos. I just saw other guys getting there tats being exposed and pics taken. I will fight the loud exhaust ticket. I will have to drive my car to the court house, fight it, then get it tested, I assume the judge will order that, then go back. Maybe the court will just let it go. We will see.
 

txchopperguy

Well-Known Member
When you referred to pics being taken of tats...I felt this was all gang related. Sucks dude, but i would still fight the tickets. You are not a part of that (the gang problem) and got caught up in something that I feel they might have a hard time justifying. If they are going to get it from you MAKE them work for it!
Just my .02
 

barhopper

Another round please
When you referred to pics being taken of tats...I felt this was all gang related. Sucks dude, but i would still fight the tickets. You are not a part of that (the gang problem) and got caught up in something that I feel they might have a hard time justifying. If they are going to get it from you MAKE them work for it!
Just my .02
I agree. I will let you all know what happens.
 
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