Tappets

[lee]

This might be a stupid question. I'm going to get some S&S Hydraulic tappets with the travel limiters. What I don't know is do I need TC or Evo style? I know the rocker boxes are TC style so it would be easy for me to assume the entire valve train is TC style. But we all know where assumption can get us. Thanks gents.

 

[V]

I know that they make two different sizes (travel limiters) if you pull your tappet block you can look at the existing lifters that you have and just order the travel limiters for those. I think there less than $20 bucks for a set of 4.

 

[MARV]

S&S #33-5342 is the oem tappet that came out of my 117

 

[HOOLIGAN]

I believe your rocker boxes are "TP" not "TC". "TC" stands for Twin Cam. Your engine is an Evolution style motor or "EVO".

 

[MARV]

I believe your rocker boxes are "TP" not "TC". "TC" stands for Twin Cam. Your engine is an Evolution style motor or "EVO".

ssw+ has a single cam evo lower and a TC style top end.

TC jugs, heads, rockers, oiling/breathing system

 

[Fibersnake]

Has your original S&S gone bad or is there another reasons that you are looking to change. See that you have a 05 and if I recall right the 05 BD came with S&S hydraulic with travel limiters.

Maybe more informed folks over at puppy farm can confirm to be safe.

 

[MARV]

Has your original S&S gone bad or is there another reasons that you are looking to change. See that you have a 05 and if I recall right the 05 BD came with S&S hydraulic with travel limiters.

Maybe more informed folks over at puppy farm can confirm to be safe.

no limiters in the BD's until you put them in.

if you adjusted your rods (by the book) with 3 1/2 turns from zero lash with limiters in you'd have some damage.

 

[Thumper]

no limiters in the BD's until you put them in.

if you adjusted your rods (by the book) with 3 1/2 turns from zero lash with limiters in you'd have some damage.

What is the adjustment with limiters?

 

[Fibersnake]

Marv,

Can not say for a fact, but I am pretty sure that my 05 has the limiters in them as well as many others. As far as adjustment, I know that it the HL2t limiters have to be used with adjustable push-rods which mine is. I normally go for 4 turns, though may back off 1/2 to 3 1/2.

Have spoke to my dealer before on this and he indicated he was pretty sure it did have the limiters in order to prevent them from collapsing and being nosier than hell at start up until they pumped up and also for the easier starting.

Hopefully Dog Vet or someone else that may have more direct info may know for sure.

 

[Fibersnake]

What is the adjustment with limiters?

Thumper this is what the S&S Tech papers indicate:

"How do I adjust my lifter with your HL2T kit installed?
A. Remove spark plugs.

B. Bring piston to TDC on compression stroke in cylinder to be adjusted. Normally both tappets will be at their lowest point of travel.

C. Extend pushrod adjustment, collapsing lifter until piston assembly is in contact with HL2T spacer and pushrod is tight. If tappets contain oil, as when pushrods are readjusted after engine has been run, or if all oil was not removed during installation, extend pushrod adjustment until valve is open (about five additional turns of adjusting screw). Allow five minutes for hydraulic unit to bleed down. If pushrod can be turned with fingers after bleeding down, lifter is not completely collapsed, and this step must be repeated.

NOTE - perform this operation on one cylinder at a time. Do not turn engine until pushrod adjustment is complete.

CAUTION - Turning engine while valve is held off the seat could result in valve-to-valve or valve-to-piston contact and serious valve train damage.

D. Loosen pushrod adjustment until pushrod can be rotated with the fingers with slight drag.

NOTE - Some engine builders prefer to adjust pushrods another one- half turn looser. This provides additional travel for the valve in the hydraulic piston assembly. Additional travel can improve the ability of the hydraulic unit to pump up and maintain zero valve lash.

E. Tighten lock nut.

F. Follow the same procedure for all four pushrods.

G. Recheck pushrod adjustment after a few hundred miles.

NOTES:
It is a good idea to recheck pushrod adjustment in a new engine as valve train may tighten up due to gasket compression and valve seat wear.

Upon initial start-up after modification, HL2T equipped lifters may be somewhat noisy for 10-20 miles. If lifters are still noisy after 20 miles it is recommended that pushrods be adjusted one-half turn looser. See step D"

Pretty much the same as I have been doing for awhile except I turn only about 4 turns instead of the 5 mentioned.

 

[lee]

it looks like I've started something here! Thanks for the replies gents.

Ok I spoke to R&R cycles this afternoon (if you can call email speaking) after not getting any response from S&S and they confirmed the tappets in the SSW+ are Evo style. I'm going to buy from them.

Fiber there is nothing wrong with mine that I know of but I am replacing the rocker boxes for S&S, along with changing the valves for stock sizes and thought it a good time to do this too.

 

[Thumper]

Thanks, Fiber

 

[MARV]

Fiber, i'm kind of confused with your response. sounds like you think the adjustment with and without limiters are the same? limiters reduce the piston travel by 50% which creates the need for a more exact adjustment when using them.

With hlt2 limiters, at TDC, collapse the tappet by overextending the rods to fully bleed down the tappet. after a few minutes of extended and you still cant spin the rod means its bottomed. shorten rod to zero lash then shorten 1 more turn to get approximately to the middle of the travel. any less of a turn will give a more solid lifter which IMO is better.

without the limiters, at TDC, get zero lash then add 3-4 turns to approximately reach the center of travel. (out of the 05 BD manual)

 

[Thumper]

limiters reduce the piston travel by 50%

Assuming this is a typo, did you mean the tappet travel?

 

[Fibersnake]

Marv,

Just know that I adjusted mine per S&S pretty much as per the posted tech paper. Have had no problems and about the only difference is that I tighten it down to 4 turns after bottom out the tavel limiter at TDC, then after waiting, if still tight, back off to zero lash and then 1/2 turn. If not tighten another turn, wait and go from there.

Procedure in the book may end up getting in same area, not sure. Just know have no problems, excessive noise and plenty of power and am pretty damn sure it has Travel Limiters on it as many other may also.

Since I do not have a lifter in my end or on the bench, I can not confirm that there is limiters or not. Maybe some that has had one apart can (assuming they took the lifter apart and not just out of the engine) or BD folks in the know will chime in.

Regardless safe riding to all while the season still allows.

 

[Little-Boo]

Lee you and I have or I will have a simular set up as yours with the 650 Woods Cam. In changing out my lifters, I decided to use the JIM'S Hydrosolid Lifters which will work with any cam and are ajusted as solid lifter. They serve as hydraulic up to 5000 and will work as solid lifters above that to Keep the valve from floating and avoid any piston to valve contact. Maybe you should look into that instead of the limiters, which I believe serve the same purpose

Carlos

 

[lee]

thanks Boo - I have to say some of this is starting to go over my head a bit. I have seen the Jims Hydro's but decided to go with S&S for some reason. Probably because its an S&S motor as much as anything else. Also, because R&R sell them I'm guessing they must be pretty good as I don't imagine them selling anything that does not perform.

 

[alhall88]

no limiters in the BD's until you put them in.

if you adjusted your rods (by the book) with 3 1/2 turns from zero lash with limiters in you'd have some damage.

I'll put my 2 cents in here. The stock configuration 117 S&S would have come with travel limiters in the lifters due to the cam that should have been in there. However big dog did not use them with the low lift epa cam. Even my 04 117 did not have travel limiters lifters. You can use the actual travel limiter lifters or use the washers that S&S also has that do the same thing pretty much. The stock lifter travel has about .100 travel in it. The point you need to be around is .050 to .065 if your around the .640 -.650 lift IMO. My builder didn't think I was right until he adjusted the pushrods and had to pull it back apart and put the correct lifters in.

 

[lee]

thanks Al - so assuming my bike will not have the travel limiters, do these bikes have the hydraulic lifters so that all I need is the travel limiter kit? It is obviously the lifters (are lifters and tappets the same thing?) which is the expensive bit.

This is all very confusing to me!!!

 

[lee]

I did a search in the part number Marv gave - couldn't find much but I think they are hydraulic but perhaps quite old. I found some for $40 dollars! If changing them is good enough for Marv then it is certainly good enough for me. I'm going to order part no. 33-5353 with travel limiters from R&R and be done with it.

Thanks for all the comments gents - much appreciated.