starter questions?

[skully]

Not being hard nose but, i'm looking for facts on this and not opions on these problems. i'm looking for anyone who has had experance with these problems on a bigdog and gotten it fixed.

1. 06 k-9, with 8k in mileage;
after hitting the start button and then the run button , the engine turns over one stroke, stops, has a delay of 2-4 seconds before turning over again and firing up. it sounds like it pulls the battery down, then jumps to life.
and yes guys the battery is good, charged and checked. new starter, etc, etc. the shop has busted there butts trying to get this fixed.

2. allso, it sounds as though the starter is hitting the ring gear every now and then. this seems to happens more so when the engine is hot.

has anyone had these problems and found the cures?

 

[Oscar Maldonado]

1) The symptoms your bike is going through is the same exact thing mine was going through. All they did to mine was replace the starter. Seeing that you had that done already rules that one out.

2) The second thing they found was that the battery that I had in the bike was a bit on the weak side with it only being that it wasn't 300 cca or better.

After them 2 items were replaced, I haven't had a problem to date and it's going on 2 years now. Sorry to hear about the problems you're having Skully.

 

[P8RIOT]

Skully, I wonder if I'm having the same sympoms.

Occasionally, when I hit the START button, it sounds as if the starter drives the first cylindar up to compression, but then stops completely without pushing it over the top. I then release the START button, wait a few seconds, and press it again - invariably, it spins the motor just fine and then starts like normal.

I described the symptoms to my dealer when I had my 5K done, and she called Big Dog. Their best guess at this time is an intermittent compression release. They said they will do a little more testing when I come in next time, and maybe replace the compression releases.

Another alternative they suggested checking is a solder joint inside the starter case. Apparently they have seen some cases where it can crack due to vibration, and intermittently cause low starter torque. I don't think that fits my symptoms very well, but they said it was easy for them to check.

I have been watching my battery voltage closely, as that was my first guess - but it have been consistently just over 13 volts.

I'll keep you posted as this develops - maybe we are having the same problem.

 

[Raywood]

I'm on my 7th starter on my 05 and now the latest one that was just put in a couple months ago is leaking again. I kinda think that once they become oil logged they start having starting issues.
I sure wish they would get a fix on the leaking issue. It's been going on for several years now.
When you get a replacement starter from BDM you are getting a re-conditioned starter so.......
I just got off the phone with my dealers warranty lady and getting on the schedule for the VR replacement and putting in a claim for a new starter. She says the replacement should be warrantied for 6 months. My bikes warranty expired last October!
As far as maintenance I would ensure that all the wires are tight and the battery is maintained on a tender. The battery terminal wires loosen up quite often on mine.
Later,
Ray

 

[skully]

P8RIOT,

your discription sounds just like my bike. this past month they replaced the starter, and then replaced the battery with a heavt duty unit, but , the problem is still there. at times it puts such a heavey load on the starter that it will start to click, rather than turn over.

the other problem is sometimes, more so when the motor is hot, it sounds like the stater drive hit the ring gear. it makes a hell of a metal to metal impact sound. do you ever get that with yours?

 

[kickstart]

I was told that BD is replacing starters under warranty with rebuilt starters, don't know how significant this is just something to check. Should be marked on the work order.

 

[P8RIOT]

Never heard the metal to metal sound, Skully - nor the click-click-click - but then I'm off the START button immediately if it seems to hang. Also, I have been watching my battery voltage closely, and it is always right around 13 volts.

The dealer said they have the compression releases coming in, and will do a preemptive replacement on them, unless they find something else obvious. I just have to fit into their busy schedule, since it is riding season.

Regardless, this is not a show-stopper for me - just a curious symptom I have started to notice occasionally. It never fails to spin over and start on the second try.

 

[Front Runner]

Skully, I wonder if I'm having the same sympoms.

Occasionally, when I hit the START button, it sounds as if the starter drives the first cylindar up to compression, but then stops completely without pushing it over the top. I then release the START button, wait a few seconds, and press it again - invariably, it spins the motor just fine and then starts like normal.

I described the symptoms to my dealer when I had my 5K done, and she called Big Dog. Their best guess at this time is an intermittent compression release. They said they will do a little more testing when I come in next time, and maybe replace the compression releases.

My K-9 has started doing the same thing recently. It will only happen when the engine is hot after I've ridden it for a while. I'll hit the starter button and it would spin 1/2 time and stop but I'm also getting the metal "klank" sound like SKULLY was talking about. It doesnt do it all the time but the problem is becoming more frequent. After I let it sit for a minute it'll fire right up. At my 500 mile service the dealer couldnt get the bike to do it. Did you have your problem corrected?

 

[Front Runner]

P8RIOT,

your discription sounds just like my bike. this past month they replaced the starter, and then replaced the battery with a heavt duty unit, but , the problem is still there. at times it puts such a heavey load on the starter that it will start to click, rather than turn over.

the other problem is sometimes, more so when the motor is hot, it sounds like the stater drive hit the ring gear. it makes a hell of a metal to metal impact sound. do you ever get that with yours?

My problem is like yours but without the click click sound. Did you have your problem resolved??

 

[narow37]

Hey Skully, I have the same issues. I was out today and stopped for gas and went to start up and got the very loud clunk sound. did you ever find anything out?

 

[reddog]

GOT THE SAME THING GOING ON SECOND STARTER .BEEN IN THE SHOP OVER WEEK THIS TIME , I JUST CALL MYSELF BDM R AN D ON MY DIME

 

[rowdy13]

same thing here, and it seems to be a re-occurring problem with a lot of us. where are the Big Dog tech's on this website? seems like they could answer these questions. My starter, which does and sounds like yours, I thought may be due to the coughing and sputtering my bike does. I know you didnt want opinions, only answers, and I agree. maybe there should be a way to email these concerns of ours to Big Dog, and have them answer them online to us. My warranty runs out in a couple of months, and I want my shit fixed/replaced and running the way it did before the 2500 mile check up. I know this sounds dramatic, but I didnt have any problems with my 2001 Yamaha Road Star, and sold it to buy the K-9. From now on, when I take the bike in for problems, I'm not picking it up until its fixed. I'm going to drive my own car there, take the bike for a spin, and if its not fixed, off I go in the cage. Like I said, I know this sounds dramatic, but I certainly know how you feel, and if they are still having problems with the starters, they need to get their STUFF together. On this site, and the other, we represent a huge amount of Big Dog owners, and we love our bikes. I personally have never showed any car or former bike the attention I give my K-9, so I expect the same from the dealers and Big Dog corporate. Maybe someone shoud write a letter of concern to Big Dog, and make it where we could all cut and paste our names on it, and send it to Big Dog. I tried on another thread, to list the main problems we are all having with our bikes, but didnt get a very good response. Anyone that wants to email Big Dog with our concerns and problems, here's a list of my top concerns......1. The starter=when I start the bike, it turns over once and then a couple of seconds later, it starts. And sometimes after riding awhile, I'll start it, and nothing happens, then start it again, turns over once and then will start a few seconds later. This is happening to a lot of us. 2..Coughing-when I start it up, it keeps acting like its going to die, and sometimes does, and has at stop lights.
Ok, thats it for now. If I could get those items working properly, I would be very happy with my Big Dog.

 

[Front Runner]

same thing here, and it seems to be a re-occurring problem with a lot of us. where are the Big Dog tech's on this website? seems like they could answer these questions. My starter, which does and sounds like yours, I thought may be due to the coughing and sputtering my bike does. I know you didnt want opinions, only answers, and I agree. maybe there should be a way to email these concerns of ours to Big Dog, and have them answer them online to us. My warranty runs out in a couple of months, and I want my shit fixed/replaced and running the way it did before the 2500 mile check up. I know this sounds dramatic, but I didnt have any problems with my 2001 Yamaha Road Star, and sold it to buy the K-9. From now on, when I take the bike in for problems, I'm not picking it up until its fixed. I'm going to drive my own car there, take the bike for a spin, and if its not fixed, off I go in the cage. Like I said, I know this sounds dramatic, but I certainly know how you feel, and if they are still having problems with the starters, they need to get their STUFF together. On this site, and the other, we represent a huge amount of Big Dog owners, and we love our bikes. I personally have never showed any car or former bike the attention I give my K-9, so I expect the same from the dealers and Big Dog corporate. Maybe someone shoud write a letter of concern to Big Dog, and make it where we could all cut and paste our names on it, and send it to Big Dog. I tried on another thread, to list the main problems we are all having with our bikes, but didnt get a very good response. Anyone that wants to email Big Dog with our concerns and problems, here's a list of my top concerns......1. The starter=when I start the bike, it turns over once and then a couple of seconds later, it starts. And sometimes after riding awhile, I'll start it, and nothing happens, then start it again, turns over once and then will start a few seconds later. This is happening to a lot of us. 2..Coughing-when I start it up, it keeps acting like its going to die, and sometimes does, and has at stop lights.
Ok, thats it for now. If I could get those items working properly, I would be very happy with my Big Dog.

Sounds like we are all having the same problem. Mine does the coughing and dieing thing when it's cold, but not when it's hot. Can anyone who's had this happen chime in and let us know how it was resolved?

 

[Front Runner]

sounds like you guys are having a compression release issue. they do gum up.

What causes it? How is it fixed? The dealer checked into it at my 500 mile service but they could get it to repeat it. It seem that it's doing it more often so i'll be taking it back pretty soon.

 

[P8RIOT]

Front Runner - mine only hesitates like that occasionally - and I have only heard the metallic "klunk" one time - but it scared the crap out of me when I did - thought for sure something had broken. When I talked to our dealer about the hesitation, they suspected it might be a sticky compression release. I think it might also be aggravated by a weakening battery, so I'll probably have them replace it. I do have it on a Battery Tender constantly.

It has never failed to spin over on the second attempt. Now that the riding season is pretty much over here, I haven't had much chance to watch for it, but I sure will as spring approaches.

 

[slowrower]

Front Runner - mine only hesitates like that occasionally - and I have only heard the metallic "klunk" one time - but it scared the crap out of me when I did - thought for sure something had broken. When I talked to our dealer about the hesitation, they suspected it might be a sticky compression release. I think it might also be aggravated by a weakening battery, so I'll probably have them replace it. I do have it on a Battery Tender constantly.

It has never failed to spin over on the second attempt. Now that the riding season is pretty much over here, I haven't had much chance to watch for it, but I sure will as spring approaches.

Mine 2007 just started doing this, when cold and I hit the button starter rotates the engine maybe 1 turn and hesitates then kicks over and starts. Only got about 900 miles on it.

 

[P8RIOT]

Sounds like the same thing, Slowrower - that's what makes me suspicious of either the battery capacity (not voltage) or maybe a compression release.

 

[dingo]

1. 06 k-9, with 8k in mileage;
after hitting the start button and then the run button , the engine turns over one stroke, stops, has a delay of 2-4 seconds before turning over again and firing up. it sounds like it pulls the battery down, then jumps to life.
and yes guys the battery is good, charged and checked. new starter, etc, etc. the shop has busted there butts trying to get this fixed.

Skully,

Sorry, I do not have an answer for you. However, I will share that I have the same issue with my 06 k-9. Just dropped it off for service; will let you know if I get any answer.

Cheers.

dingo

 

[hoat]

I have th problems described above but I did not have them until they changed the starter motor under warrenty. I also notice that if the battery is not fully charged it does not work as it should

 

[Front Runner]

i had to pull my compression release cause it loosened up. plugged it with a spark plug to keep rolling. still running with just the front release. my bike starts the same way as your descibing. hit the start and get a slight turn of the motor then a pause, then it cranks.

sounds to me one of your releases is either gummed or unplugged and when starting your on the compression stroke in that cylinder and it causes the starter to pause.

should be able to feel it activate when you hit the run switch.

Speaking of compression releases I took this from the S&S website.



"Are my compression releases working properly?
The main reason for compression releases is to reduce the amount of compression during the start up of your bike. Primarily if you have altered the compression ratio and have cranking compression numbers that are higher than 180psi.

If you are using S&S electronic compression releases and you are not sure if they are working properly here are some methods of checking them out.

1. Note that when you are cranking the engine that both releases are opening; this can be done by looking to see of they both drop down or by putting your finger on top and feeling the drop down motion.

2. Compression releases not sealing; to check for proper seal of the release you can do a leak down test. If the leak down percentage is high and you can here air in the exhaust it is possible that a release may not be properly sealing. If this is the situation you will need to remove both releases and verify condition. (When ever you are installing or removing compression releases it is best to remove the rocker boxes it makes the job much easier.) To verify condition, after the releases are removed look for signs of the plunger not properly sealing. Some times a poorly tuned engine will cause access carbon to build up on the release causing it to stick. The releases can be cleaned and reinstalled. If the release seems to be damaged call your S&S tech line for assistance.

3. Check the wiring; If you do not have the releases properly wired they may not work properly and you could run the risk of damaging the releases or some thing else on your bike. If you are unsure you can see the instruction sheets for installation on line at S&S Cycle Home Page - Welcome.

4. When removing or installing our releases it is much easier to remove the rocker boxes and also the use of the S&S two piece socket will help PN 53-0045. If you choose not to use the compression releases you can install the plug into each head PN 90-4916.

5. If your cylinder heads did not come machined for the S&S compression releases you should not attempt to machine the heads to install them, you may do irreversible damage to the heads."



How do yall check to see if the compression releases are bad, or do you have the dealer do this. I'm still under warranty and the dealer will make all repairs but is there a quick way to check with taking anything apart? Has anyone tried this method that's suggested on the website?

1. Note that when you are cranking the engine that both releases are opening; this can be done by looking to see of they both drop down or by putting your finger on top and feeling the drop down motion.