Starter question

[Coolbreezin]

I have two starters. One has solenoid issues I believe. I r&r'ed the starters and went for a ride. Started like normal. I stopped for gas and the bike wouldn't start. I towed it home and changed the battery. The battery was 13.6 volts but the starter kept clicking and wouldn't even turn over the engine. I tried to jump it off of a 1000 CCA diesel battery in my Ram and it kept clicking and wouldn't turn over. The clicking sound didn't sound like a dead battery. So I pulled the starter and hooked it to the aforementioned battery with truck running (14v) and my jackshaft shoots in and out while spinning.
What would cause this? Site will not accept my video (mp4).

 

[Rottweiler]

Not sure about the starter. But on another subject. Note: if you ever jump your bike from another vehicle ALWAYS do it with the vehicle not running.

 

[Rottweiler]

I would clean all connections at the starter also make sure it has a good ground connection.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

I have two starters. One has solenoid issues I believe. I r&r'ed the starters and went for a ride. Started like normal. I stopped for gas and the bike wouldn't start. I towed it home and changed the battery. The battery was 13.6 volts but the starter kept clicking and wouldn't even turn over the engine. I tried to jump it off of a 1000 CCA diesel battery in my Ram and it kept clicking and wouldn't turn over. The clicking sound didn't sound like a dead battery. So I pulled the starter and hooked it to the aforementioned battery with truck running (14v) and my jackshaft shoots in and out while spinning.
What would cause this? Site will not accept my video (mp4).

Put your bike in gear and roll back and forth to make sure your not locked up. Back to neutral and troubleshooting.
Is it possible the click your hearing is the Compression Releases. Also your ground on the starter may have been poor. Reinstall the starter but leave the green wire disconnected and test that you are getting Voltage on the wire when the start button is selected. You should also hear the CR's at the same time . If your battery is not 12.8 vdc charge it , connect the green wire and see what happens (Click or Crank). Let us know if you are successful.
A bad battery could give a similar symptom especially if it's old.

 

[Coolbreezin]

Excellent info. Thank you for the breakdown in the steps.

 

[Coolbreezin]

I didn't roll test the bike yet. But I did follow the directions given above and the green wire gets full amperage (12.9+) when the key is turned. Years ago all my handlebar buttons died so I have had a standard car-like key ignition since. The starter clicks; I can feel it on the solenoid body. My CRs don't move. I pushed on both and they seem like they are sitting completely open. I removed the plugs and tried but the starter just clicks. But when bench tested, it works perfectly.
I'll roll test it this afternoon and let yall know.

 

[Coolbreezin]

Bike rolls around with only a little resistance in 1st & 3rd gear. My clutch plates rub a little.
Didn't see any wire issues and 3 fuses are good. The shop r&r'ed my 40 amp fuse (Tampa BDM installed 18 years ago) with a 30 amp breaker. Could it be the breaker? I've only gotten 3 starts from it but the 40 amp fuse lasted over 18 years. Shop did r&r charging system about 4ish months ago.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

I didn't roll test the bike yet. But I did follow the directions given above and the green wire gets full amperage (12.9+) when the key is turned. Years ago all my handlebar buttons died so I have had a standard car-like key ignition since. The starter clicks; I can feel it on the solenoid body. My CRs don't move. I pushed on both and they seem like they are sitting completely open. I removed the plugs and tried but the starter just clicks. But when bench tested, it works perfectly.
I'll roll test it this afternoon and let yall know.

If I'm understanding correctly, the starter bench tests fine (no load) but when in the bike it fails to crank the engine. Because you have 12.9 vdc triggering the solenoid and get a click you feel on the starter, my guess would be that you have a poor connection on the starter (+ or -) back to the battery. The solenoid does not require a lot of current (amps) to fire which may be why you feel/hear it when you turn the key . The starter however does need all it can get from the battery . Check the contacts inside the solenoid, double check your cables back to the battery and lastly and definitely have your battery load tested.
FYI all the solenoid does is connect the + side of the battery to the - side in order to crank the starter.

 

[Coolbreezin]

If I'm understanding correctly, the starter bench tests fine (no load) but when in the bike it fails to crank the engine. Because you have 12.9 vdc triggering the solenoid and get a click you feel on the starter, my guess would be that you have a poor connection on the starter (+ or -) back to the battery. The solenoid does not require a lot of current (amps) to fire which may be why you feel/hear it when you turn the key . The starter however does need all it can get from the battery . Check the contacts inside the solenoid, double check you cables back to the battery and lastly and definitely have your battery load tested.
FYI all the solenoid does is connect the + side of the battery to the - side in order to crank the starter.

Yes, you understand exactly everything I was saying. Excellent directions, thank you.

 

[Roaming Wolf]

I have two starters. One has solenoid issues I believe. I r&r'ed the starters and went for a ride. Started like normal. I stopped for gas and the bike wouldn't start. I towed it home and changed the battery. The battery was 13.6 volts but the starter kept clicking and wouldn't even turn over the engine. I tried to jump it off of a 1000 CCA diesel battery in my Ram and it kept clicking and wouldn't turn over. The clicking sound didn't sound like a dead battery. So I pulled the starter and hooked it to the aforementioned battery with truck running (14v) and my jackshaft shoots in and out while spinning.
What would cause this? Site will not accept my video (mp4).

Had an issue with my starter. Just fixed it. The problem was the starter clutch. Changed to this: https://www.jpcycles.com/product/al...-for-harley-big-twin-1991-2006?sku_id=1085512

All good now.

 

[Coolbreezin]

Had an issue with my starter. Just fixed it. The problem was the starter clutch. Changed to this: https://www.jpcycles.com/product/al...-for-harley-big-twin-1991-2006?sku_id=1085512

All good now.

Thank you. I believe my issue is electrical though. I'll keep you info in mind.

 

[Coolbreezin]

If I'm understanding correctly, the starter bench tests fine (no load) but when in the bike it fails to crank the engine. Because you have 12.9 vdc triggering the solenoid and get a click you feel on the starter, my guess would be that you have a poor connection on the starter (+ or -) back to the battery. The solenoid does not require a lot of current (amps) to fire which may be why you feel/hear it when you turn the key . The starter however does need all it can get from the battery . Check the contacts inside the solenoid, double check you cables back to the battery and lastly and definitely have your battery load tested.
FYI all the solenoid does is connect the + side of the battery to the - side in order to crank the starter.

Just for giggles I bypassed the 30 amp breaker and reinstall the 40 amp fuse. Starter still clicks. I put it all back to the breaker and I removed and cleaned both battery cables and checked for any breaks and damage. All seems fine. I connected the external battery to the battery cables bypassing the breaker and ignition and it's still just clicks. I removed the starter from the bike connected all the appropriate wires and cables and it works fine. I'm getting a full load from the battery at the time that I tried to get it started whether in or out of the bike.

 

[Roaming Wolf]

Just for giggles I bypassed the 30 amp breaker and reinstall the 40 amp fuse. Starter still clicks. I put it all back to the breaker and I removed and cleaned both battery cables and checked for any breaks and damage. All seems fine. I connected the external battery to the battery cables bypassing the breaker and ignition and it's still just clicks. I removed the starter from the bike connected all the appropriate wires and cables and it works fine. I'm getting a full load from the battery at the time that I tried to get it started whether in or out of the bike.

You can try removing the primary and checking how the starter actually works when loaded. You starter might be dying. It spins ok without a load.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Just for giggles I bypassed the 30 amp breaker and reinstall the 40 amp fuse. Starter still clicks. I put it all back to the breaker and I removed and cleaned both battery cables and checked for any breaks and damage. All seems fine. I connected the external battery to the battery cables bypassing the breaker and ignition and it's still just clicks. I removed the starter from the bike connected all the appropriate wires and cables and it works fine. I'm getting a full load from the battery at the time that I tried to get it started whether in or out of the bike.

I think I'm getting lost but (stock wiring) the starter does not have a fuse or CB as part of the circuit. The starter only requires a + connection directly from the battery ( a heavy cable ) and a - cable (also heavy) which is usually connected from the mounting bolt (frame ground) of the starter back to the battery. The skinny green wire is only to activate the solenoid and also is not fused.
You said previously ( correct me if I'm wrong) that when disconnected you get 12.9 volts at the green wire. That means the momentary side of your key switch is working. That accounts for what's required to operate the solenoid. The EHC is what provides the voltage to operate the CR's (for 1 second ) at start up . I don't know how they wired for that to happen (unless your pressing the start button at the same time you turn the key to start) Could be they didn't and they don't operate.
Just out of curiosity for me. Bike in neutral, green wire disconnected from solenoid with a volt meter connected. Turn the key to start position. You should read 12.9 vdc and hear the CR's click once. If you don't hear anything select the start button at the same time with the key switch and listen again. If you hear them you need to adopt a new starting procedure. Regardless, CR's don't need to work for the engine to start. It just makes it easier on the starter.
OK , let me know the answers to my questions just curious. Assuming your getting 12.9 on the green wire, reconnect it to the solenoid. Connect a meter across the Pos and Neg of the battery . Should be 12.8 + until you turn the key to start. When you hit the key note what happens to the voltage reading ?
Get your battery load tested it could read 12vdc but still be crap. You had a charging issue 4 Months ago maybe it wasn't resolved . When you get the bike running it should charge between 13.8 vdc to not more than 14.8 vdc.

 

[Coolbreezin]

I think I'm getting lost but (stock wiring) the starter does not have a fuse or CB as part of the circuit. The starter only requires a + connection directly from the battery ( a heavy cable ) and a - cable (also heavy) which is usually connected from the mounting bolt (frame ground) of the starter back to the battery. The skinny green wire is only to activate the solenoid and also is not fused.
You are correct regarding the above. Years ago my handlebar switches all died. So I had the same mechanic completely rewire my bike to remove the brain and other stupid crap sheldon colemen forced upon us. Hence, I have only three fuses. Turn signal & headlight switch is under the tank and I have a marine key ignition.

You said previously ( correct me if I'm wrong) that when disconnected you get 12.9 volts at the green wire. That means the momentary side of your key switch is working. That accounts for what's required to operate the solenoid. The EHC is what provides the voltage to operate the CR's (for 1 second ) at start up . I don't know how they wired for that to happen (unless your pressing the start button at the same time you turn the key to start) Could be they didn't and they don't operate.
No ehc, Run or Start buttons.

Just out of curiosity for me. Bike in neutral, green wire disconnected from solenoid with a volt meter connected. Turn the key to start position. You should read 12.9 vdc and hear the CR's click once. If you don't hear anything select the start button at the same time with the key switch and listen again. If you hear them you need to adopt a new starting procedure. Regardless, CR's don't need to work for the engine to start. It just makes it easier on the starter.
OK , let me know the answers to my questions just curious. Assuming your getting 12.9 on the green wire, reconnect it to the solenoid. Connect a meter across the Pos and Neg of the battery . Should be 12.8 + until you turn the key to start. When you hit the key note what happens to the voltage reading ?
I received my new (warranty replacement) bike battery. So new battery and spark plugs installed. Bike fired right up! But I still cannot feel my CR’s move but the bike starts and runs idles) fine. Havent test ridden it yet.
What I dont understand is if the bike battery was the culprit, why did my diesel battery (1000 cca) only make my bike click but starts my Ram diesel engine. I also hooked a 280ah lithium ion battery to the bike and it clicked. But now I have a lower cca battery (same as previous bike battery) starts the bike fine. Turned off and started bike 4 times without any issue or hesitation. Bike idles at 13.9v.

Get your battery load tested it could read 12vdc but still be crap. You had a charging issue 4 Months ago maybe it wasn't resolved . When you get the bike running it should charge between 13.8 vdc to not more than 14.8 vdc.
I am going to load test the two big lithium ion car batteries.

Thank you all for the knowledge and assistance. I sincerely appreciate yalls help.
I do wish I knew what the problem was though.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

I think I'm getting lost but (stock wiring) the starter does not have a fuse or CB as part of the circuit. The starter only requires a + connection directly from the battery ( a heavy cable ) and a - cable (also heavy) which is usually connected from the mounting bolt (frame ground) of the starter back to the battery. The skinny green wire is only to activate the solenoid and also is not fused.
You are correct regarding the above. Years ago my handlebar switches all died. So I had the same mechanic completely rewire my bike to remove the brain and other stupid crap sheldon colemen forced upon us. Hence, I have only three fuses. Turn signal & headlight switch is under the tank and I have a marine key ignition.

You said previously ( correct me if I'm wrong) that when disconnected you get 12.9 volts at the green wire. That means the momentary side of your key switch is working. That accounts for what's required to operate the solenoid. The EHC is what provides the voltage to operate the CR's (for 1 second ) at start up . I don't know how they wired for that to happen (unless your pressing the start button at the same time you turn the key to start) Could be they didn't and they don't operate.
No ehc, Run or Start buttons.

Just out of curiosity for me. Bike in neutral, green wire disconnected from solenoid with a volt meter connected. Turn the key to start position. You should read 12.9 vdc and hear the CR's click once. If you don't hear anything select the start button at the same time with the key switch and listen again. If you hear them you need to adopt a new starting procedure. Regardless, CR's don't need to work for the engine to start. It just makes it easier on the starter.
OK , let me know the answers to my questions just curious. Assuming your getting 12.9 on the green wire, reconnect it to the solenoid. Connect a meter across the Pos and Neg of the battery . Should be 12.8 + until you turn the key to start. When you hit the key note what happens to the voltage reading ?
I received my new (warranty replacement) bike battery. So new battery and spark plugs installed. Bike fired right up! But I still cannot feel my CR’s move but the bike starts and runs idles) fine. Havent test ridden it yet.
What I dont understand is if the bike battery was the culprit, why did my diesel battery (1000 cca) only make my bike click but starts my Ram diesel engine. I also hooked a 280ah lithium ion battery to the bike and it clicked. But now I have a lower cca battery (same as previous bike battery) starts the bike fine. Turned off and started bike 4 times without any issue or hesitation. Bike idles at 13.9v.

Get your battery load tested it could read 12vdc but still be crap. You had a charging issue 4 Months ago maybe it wasn't resolved . When you get the bike running it should charge between 13.8 vdc to not more than 14.8 vdc.
I am going to load test the two big lithium ion car batteries.

Thank you all for the knowledge and assistance. I sincerely appreciate yalls help.
I do wish I knew what the problem was though.

Good news you got it running! Hard to figure but it was probably the connections or the way you were jumping it. Doesn't really matter sometimes MURPHY is the reason. Your CR's were probably not wired when the Key switch was put in because they were controlled by an EHC which you no longer have. No CR's is an extra strain on your battery and will cause it to have a shorter life. You can reach over and push the front cylinder CR with one hand while you turn the key and that would help. An alternative would be to install manual CRs but I think the thread size can be an issue and may require an adapter. Someone else on the site may know the answer to that question or even if it's a good idea.
Recommended battery is DEKA ETX 20L and used by many on this site.

 

[chubs]

Good news you got it running! Hard to figure but it was probably the connections or the way you were jumping it. Doesn't really matter sometimes MURPHY is the reason. Your CR's were probably not wired when the Key switch was put in because they were controlled by an EHC which you no longer have. No CR's is an extra strain on your battery and will cause it to have a shorter life. You can reach over and push the front cylinder CR with one hand while you turn the key and that would help. An alternative would be to install manual CRs but I think the thread size can be an issue and may require an adapter. Someone else on the site may know the answer to that question or even if it's a good idea.
Recommended battery is DEKA ETX 20L and used by many on this site.

You might be able to wire a tiny momentary push button switch to power your compression releases, and tuck it away somewhere that is convenient to hit when you want to fire the bike up. Just a thought.