Removing lifters?

[RVH]

I thinking the front lifters are sticking. When I first lifted the tubes and rotated the rod to the low point on the lobe, the front intake rod was loose(like 1/8" play). I turned the motor over a few times to the low point again and both front rods were loose. Kept checking and now they're tight. Never could get the rear rods to be more than twistable with my fingers.............Thats the way it was running, good for a few minutes then would skip with a tapping noise at the front cylinder. If anyone thinks it might be something other than sticking lifters, please chime in. In the meantime, can I remove the lifters by shortening the pushrods and/or removing the tappet blocks? ........

 

[V]

To remove lifters you will need to shorten pushrods, then pull up the lifter block to remove pushrods. make sur that the lifters go back in the lifter block in the same orentation as they came out.

The lifter will pump up as you rotate the engine and oil builds up bu they also have a small spring that will keep the plunger at the top.

Were the valves adjusted correctly?

 

[MARV]

V, thats got to be a bitch to get the tappets back in the blocks that way!

 

[V]

Yea it is. I had a front lifter colapse (had crud in it?) Replaced both of the front at the same time. Put some Lucas oil stabilizer on the lifters to help hold in place. Lined up and torqued tappet block. Then spun the back wheel until I had oil in the new lifters. It helped having time saver pushrods as they weren't in the way!

 

[RVH]

Thanks guys. The part that's got me puzzled is the fact that the rods were so loose. Even not being pumped up, the spring should be strong enough to hold the rods tight as far as being able to move them vertically with your hand, right? V, was your symptoms similar to mine when your lifter collapsed?..... Probably wont get to this tonight but will post back when I get them out.

 

[MARV]

Thanks guys. The part that's got me puzzled is the fact that the rods were so loose. Even not being pumped up, the spring should be strong enough to hold the rods tight as far as being able to move them vertically with your hand, right? V, was your symptoms similar to mine when your lifter collapsed?..... Probably wont get to this tonight but will post back when I get them out.

with the piston at TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke, the cam will be at its lowest point for both lifters on that cylinder. the rods should spin easily (since there's no valve spring pressure) but not up and down. zero lash is when there is no up and down movement but just a slight drag on the lifter. 3-4 more turns longer and done.

the spring will extend the lifter but you can easily go past zero lash when extending the rod.

if your sure your on the comp stroke(!) and the rod is loose again then time to open up a lifter. just a circlip and they come apart. got to keep them real clean when putting it back together, as per S&S.

 

[V]

Mine just took longer to "pump up" when first started. Loud tapping for a couple of seconds. It was the exhaust on the leading cylinder. Took it apart and it had something in it that looked like mud? Already had the new ones so I put them in. No more problem.

 

[RVH]

Thanks again gents..... Marv, definitely on the compression stroke when I felt the looseness of the rods.(both valves closed in the front cylinder) Your comments makes me feel better about it being a lifter. Couldn't think of any scenario in the head that would let it be loose one time and tight the next.... V, hoping that is what it is. The sound was as you described, a tap......... Just to ease my mind so I can sleep tonight, you wouldn't think this situation could be related to oblong valve guides, would ya? Just wondering for no other reason than I have TP boxes and I've never had them off to know for sure what rockers I have.

 

[V]

I don't think the valve gudies would have enough wear to make the pushrods loose. There would have to be a lot of slopp in the top end to do that and I think you would be burning a bit of oil.

 

[lee]

interesting point on the rockers. I have roller rockers in mine but I bought the bike used so don't know if that was stock or not. Does anybody know whether these bikes come out of the factory with roller rocker arms? I'm guessing not because of the people who have had the valve guide wear problem and to my knowledge (very limited) roller rockers should prevent this.

 

[V]

interesting point on the rockers. I have roller rockers in mine but I bought the bike used so don't know if that was stock or not. Does anybody know whether these bikes come out of the factory with roller rocker arms? I'm guessing not because of the people who have had the valve guide wear problem and to my knowledge (very limited) roller rockers should prevent this.

My 05 with the TP boxes had roller tip rockers. I don't believe they were S&S though. There is a guy on Ebay called "Shovelheadkicker" that has BDM over stock stuff and he has some of the TP roller tip rockers that are still new in the package.

My 08 has S&S rockers but they are not roller tip:down: A new set is over $400 bucks

 

[lee]

yeah V but as you have a complete S&S valve train I'm guessing it doesn't really matter

 

[V]

yeah V but as you have a complete S&S valve train I'm guessing it doesn't really matter

Yea S&S said they would work with up to the 640 cam, however the springs are the single wound .585 max lift. So if I cam up will have to at least replace springs as a minimum.

V

 

[RVH]

OK, could not get the lifters out w/o pulling the head. Loaded the bike & ran over to my local custom shop. He couldn't get them out either so we pulled the head. Removed the lifters and took them apart and cleaned. They both had the same spring pressure and seemed to operate fine before and after the cleaning. He didn't have a new set in the shop so we put them back in and buttoned her back up. (only done 3 turns after zero lash just to be on the safe side) Turned her over a few times with the rear wheel just to make sure and then fired her up. Everything sounded good so I did the old road test. Running like a scalded dog again. Put about 20 miles on her and not one tap, tick, or anything. ...... Guess I'll never know what the deal was but I really feel as though(and the shop owner does too) that we could've just adjusted the valves and ended up with the same results.......I know it doesn't make sense that the bike would run so good one minute then find the pushrods so loose the next. Anyway, gonna leatherup and ride her tonight. Wish me luck!!!

 

[lee]

why did you have to remove the heads to get the lifters out? surely once the pushrods are out they're clear.

 

[MARV]

good deal!

strange how the rods have so much thread but they arent the "quickie" install type. :bang:

i also had to pull the rockers to get the rods out each time i went in there.


V must have "slight of hand".

 

[V]

Yup

With standard rods you have to remove the rocker box cover and the rocker assembly. Not the head.

 

[RVH]

My bad..... I meant the rocker boxes then the rockers.(and lift the gas tank which is a bitch) Ran ok last night but I think I'll pick up a set of lifters to install one day when its too cold to ride. Thanks for all the help guys.