TCALZ06
Well-Known Member
The only reason I found this is because I took it to the shop to have a set of John Sachs heads and a cam installed. I got a big surprise
Over heating damage
- Thread starter TCALZ06
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TCALZ06
Well-Known Member
That's one of the best gauges/mounts I've seen. I'll be using something for my new engine.
Moespeeds
Well-Known Member
Im sorry to hear all that, it really sucks. It's funny, I abuse the shit out of my engine, never broke it in, beat the hell out of it when it's cold, run super short pipes with no baffles, and ran it with no air filter and an open intake for a year. When I blew a head gasket last year at around 18k miles I expected the worst when I opened it up. Instead everything looked great, other than some very minor scratches on the cylinder walls, I'm assuming came from shit getting sucked into the intake. I cleaned everything up, lapped the valves, and put it all back together with new rings.
RCAdd1ct
JAFO
Check if the gap where the rings go into the pistons is excessive. If it is that is a good indication of detonation.
With your loud pipes you might not have heard that the thing was pinging due to the timing/mixture being wrong.
Only mentioning this as if there was an issue, and you put humpty dumpty back together, it might do it again.
With your loud pipes you might not have heard that the thing was pinging due to the timing/mixture being wrong.
Only mentioning this as if there was an issue, and you put humpty dumpty back together, it might do it again.
05chop
Well-Known Member
Ah Finally a thread that make me wonder WTF? I find it hard to believe 18k on the motor and three years earlier you had an overheat and now you have two scored pistons.My experience would be check for intake leaks,oil pump,oil spray jets,(jets supply oil to the bottom side of the piston) possible jetting or dirt going past the air cleaner. Pictures of all the failed parts would help to find the root cause. Never road in 100deg plus heat but if I did my throttle would be my friend. Would be nice to have John jump in on this thread!! It sure sounds like you have done your best in the maintenance department though 05chop
LamboV12
Active Member
I caught that also = you're lean brother..
FWIW - In FL it's warm and I run straight 60w - so does all Trotta bikes. In a bike event with a lot of stop and go I run my idle a little on the high side to keep the pump moving... around 1050 to 1100.
05chop
Well-Known Member
Transfer of metal from the piston to the liner tells me no oil here. I know from the factory spec clearance piston to liner is excessive Im not sure if piston is cast or forged in Bd motors.Lambo ?with extreme temp where you live and heavy weight oil in your bike at Idle what is your oil pressure reading? 05chop
LamboV12
Active Member
05Chop - she stays around 18 at idle... about mid way on my gauge even when hot and in traffic. Don't want to begin a big debate about oil but I think any Multi Grade will then out when hot. Now, having said that I use Mobile 1 multi grade in the road king - but straight dino oil in the BD... I'm also running 600 cams, 640 springs, Mukuni, etc. 8 trips to Daytona Bike week, stuck on Main street - no problem....
TCALZ06
Well-Known Member
the 50mpg may have been off but I've seen 48 before and so has a friend of mine with a AIH with a 111. Now that is running 80 on the freeway only. my normal is about 45 and 25-30 in town. My jets were a 76 main and 33 intermediate. We have noticed that these bikes love 80mph in 6th gear and seem to get the best mileage at that speed
I changed to a John sachs carb around April and before that I was running 78 main 36 intermediate no way was I lean.
I had checked plugs a few times and changed them at 10k at they didn't look lean.
I rode my friends AIH yesterday and his valve train noise or(piston slap) was much less than mine was and so was the engine vibration. I think mine was like this for a long time. I say this because I started running amsoil at 5k and it made the engine quieter.
Also I was going through a oil pressure gauge about every 4 months. I'm guessing now the extra vibration was killing them. I had 30psi at idle and 18psi hot at idle
If the vibration and piston slap got progressively worse over 3 years I think it would be hard to realize unless you rode another vtwin
Yes, I will find out about the piston ring grooves and this new engine will be tuned by the shop building it.
I spoke to John Sachs about this and he said it wouldn't be the first S&S engine to have problems but maybe he will see this and post on here about his experiences
I changed to a John sachs carb around April and before that I was running 78 main 36 intermediate no way was I lean.
I had checked plugs a few times and changed them at 10k at they didn't look lean.
I rode my friends AIH yesterday and his valve train noise or(piston slap) was much less than mine was and so was the engine vibration. I think mine was like this for a long time. I say this because I started running amsoil at 5k and it made the engine quieter.
Also I was going through a oil pressure gauge about every 4 months. I'm guessing now the extra vibration was killing them. I had 30psi at idle and 18psi hot at idle
If the vibration and piston slap got progressively worse over 3 years I think it would be hard to realize unless you rode another vtwin
Yes, I will find out about the piston ring grooves and this new engine will be tuned by the shop building it.
I spoke to John Sachs about this and he said it wouldn't be the first S&S engine to have problems but maybe he will see this and post on here about his experiences
TCALZ06
Well-Known Member
I found it hard to believe that my engine overheated and caused damage because one of the guys I ride with has been at every event I have in heavy traffic right next to me.
Some of the guys in this thread have mentioned smoking or blue smoke after overheating the motor and I've never seen anything like that
05chop
Well-Known Member
When you find the cause of death please post results! You have added some interesting posts one that I find interesting Vibration! Normal oil pressure,plugs look normal,more engine noise,crankshaft sent to balancer (machine shop) Im curious about the crank bearings I assume they are OEM? Can you find out where those bearings are made I have heard rumors keep this thread alive! 05chop
TCALZ06
Well-Known Member
I will do that.
I have had great luck with my scoot till now. I can't stress enough that I NEVER beat on my scoot, warmed it up before taking off and if you ask anyone I ride with I'm picky as hell about my stuff. I check tire pressure often, did all my required maintenance and wipe down the bike before every ride.
I'm trying to get the top end pics up today
TCALZ06
Well-Known Member
Hi,
Shop says bearings are Timken. They say cause was crankshaft shift and poor tolerances. My crank is at Dark horse now so I'll find out what they say pretty soon.
05chop
Well-Known Member
AH starting to make sense now excessive runout on the crank plus excessive vibration.Im not posting as an expert here sounds like your shop is all over it. I didnt think S&S had this problem with runout good info though! Does your shop still think overheat caused this? This is for sure a to do checking crank runout at camshaft change though. This runout on crankshaft has been a problem for Harley even on there 2010 models( reason I asked where crank bearing come from). 05chop
TCALZ06
Well-Known Member
They are telling me that due to poor tolerances the motor didn't last. They told me they have seen 5 bad S&S motors this year.
I don't think I overheated the motor but since these don't have gauges on them it's hard to tell. I would think it wouldn't have lasted 3 years after being overheated if it was that hot.
They told me S&S does not do any final measuring when building their motors all machine work is done and then assembled. Now since Big dog built some of these engines it's hard to tell what has been done
I don't think I overheated the motor but since these don't have gauges on them it's hard to tell. I would think it wouldn't have lasted 3 years after being overheated if it was that hot.
They told me S&S does not do any final measuring when building their motors all machine work is done and then assembled. Now since Big dog built some of these engines it's hard to tell what has been done
Five Five
Well-Known Member
TCAL.....Looks like the same issues on my scoot.....and whats puzzling, is that mine is the front cylinder that failed and it has the best cooling, upon tear down the inside looked new no scorching or discoloration to the inside cases....in hind sight I have always felt the motor has had excessive vibration....so my analysis is the tolerances have never been right from the begining.....I'm at peace with it and I love my scoot....Just goin to rebuild it and get back to ridin...
