Oil question, thoughts???
- Thread starter pauldeepsea
- Start date
SMCT
Active Member
I would consider anyone with 248,000 miles on the same engine, with no rebuilds, lucky. That's not really the norm from what I understand. I don't have a lot of miles at all on my S&S engine, but I can tell you this, with the little miles I do have on it, and I have it apart while I am typing, that the engineers who designed this motor (the 06 that I have) where heavily under the influence because it's a piece of shit as far as design goes and I imagine that mine is no different than anyone else's 06 S&S engine. It has major design flaws in the valve train, and mine happens to have the S&S rocker boxes. I just finished up yesterday, manufacturing thrust bearings to correct the deign issues. Bearings that are compatible with both cast iron and garbage cast aluminum. It's no wonder as to why so many complain about top end noise.
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TapioK
Well-Known Member
Interesting, what did you figure the problem in design is and how did you actually fix it? Remember I know shit about engines... But I am curious and like to learn!
I always thought the quality of US work is just so bad comparing to say Japan that their engines last like 3 times longer
Like my -12 Hemi Grand Cherokee, it has had so many recalls, it is just ridiculous, no wonder you don't see too many American cars in Europe
BadDawg Bill
Well-Known Member
My S&S was a 1996 so they must have made them better back then. I know the BD S&S motors were put together by BD using cheap parts/bearings that's why so many are having problems. You can't call it an S&S unless it was built by S&S. I feel real sorry for those guys because a properly built S&S will last over 200k with good care. With little miles you should be riding not rebuilding the motor... Good luck.
TapioK
Well-Known Member
I understand Big Dog was a big buyer, but still I wonder how companies like S&S and Baker ever made parts under their own name to should I say low BD specs... Huge PR- and lost reputation risk.
BadDawg Bill
Well-Known Member
That's something I never understood. For these companies to sell BD parts and allow them to build them with cheap parts is beyond me. Why ruin your reputation for a few bucks? and why didn't BD just buy complete engines and trans from them with a warranty? It doesn't make any sense...
TapioK
Well-Known Member
I think it has to do with Big Dog being OEM builder of bikes, certain percentage (50%?) of the parts have to be designed and/or built by oem company. And that also puts the warranty on Big Dog, not to the part manufacturer. I think would they just buy and put parts together they would have been VAR (value added retailer) or some shit like that.
Don't ask me, I'm not American and I know shit!
Why those companies did put their own name on parts I don't know, maybe they trusted BD design? Sure BD wanted to piggyback on those names and reputations.
Or maybe I am totally wrong and get slapped on my face
Oops, we hijacked this thread too
Hirter6Pack
Not Quite A Guru
We don't always hijack threads.I think it has to do with Big Dog being OEM builder of bikes, certain percentage (50%?) of the parts have to be designed and/or built by oem company. And that also puts the warranty on Big Dog, not to the part manufacturer. I think would they just buy and put parts together they would have been VAR (value added retailer) or some shit like that.
Don't ask me, I'm not American and I know shit!
Why those companies did put their own name on parts I don't know, maybe they trusted BD design? Sure BD wanted to piggyback on those names and reputations.
Or maybe I am totally wrong and get slapped on my face
Oops, we hijacked this thread too
Yes we do.
SEAL-rider
Active Member
Because S&S would not sell them that way and BD had the EPA crawling up their butt.
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TapioK
Well-Known Member
What you mean they don't sell them that way? BD assembled their own S&S engines, even with TP rockerboxes for a while! S&S also sells complete EPA engines. .??
Hirter6Pack
Not Quite A Guru
Ok,ok,you win. I can't take it any longerThat's like saying your not a
I admit it. I'm a
but I'm not the biggest 
and think we all know who that is.
Hirter6Pack
Not Quite A Guru
S&S will sell anyone a completely unassembled engine.
When Big Dog was in their prime it was cheaper for them to pay their hourly employee for assembly than to pay S&S I'm sure. Plus that gave BigDog full warranty coverage which I assume they wanted as well. Could you imagine paying 35k for a bike and the manufacturer says to take it up with S&S ? You'd be fucking livid.
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BadDawg Bill
Well-Known Member
And how do you know that? It doesn't make sense. If S&S had the warranty then BD would be off the hook and lose a lot less money... Same with Baker... The price they paid in warranty claims outweighed the profit they made from doing it themselves with cheap parts...
BadDawg Bill
Well-Known Member
Full warranty coverage coverage with inferior parts? Someone had their heads up their ass...
TapioK
Well-Known Member
You are right, warranty/oem... One might think when s&s made a deal with BD, they would have set standards for the engine built and parts used though. Did s&s ever sell 117 to public? Can't remember. Was design problems Andy talked about because of that exact size ? Who knows.
Ok,ok,you win. I can't take it any longer
View attachment 40845
I admit it. I'm a
You two are tied..king
's..
SMCT
Active Member
Bill, your absolutely right. I just was under the assumption that you might have been talking about the years from 04 to 08. Yes, I know many of friends that have older engines and they seems to have quite a few miles on them.
I am going to lay it all out in that thread I got going in "technical". But here is the short of it:
As mentioned, it is beyond belief that anyone could design something whereas you have two incompatible materials that ride on each other. I am setting up on the bridgeport to swipe .062 of material out of the rocker shaft housing, of which is made out of garbage cast aluminum. The material I am swiping out is going to be replaced by a bronze material wear washer, otherwise known as a "thrust bearing". When you have two incompatible materials that ride on each other, especially when it is in a "load" situation, you need to have either a needle thrust bearing or a bronze thrust bearing. A bronze thrust bearing is actually a washer. I set up on the lathe and made custom thrust bearings (bronze washers). In the industry there are many of offerings, although you have to be careful in the bronze of choice. If the wrong choice is made, it will wear away and not hold up to heat. These bearings that I made are good for 350-500 degrees and can handle a pretty good load. after complete, it will allow the rocker to go through it's lift motions seamlessly without noise and without wearing into the aluminum rocker housing.
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