No Spark!

[pastor t]

Had the bike up on the lift yesterday to change oil and detail it. Went to start today, it turns over fine but no fire. It's getting gas but when I pulled the plug and put it against the motor, no spark. I used a spray bottle to shine up the motor and then cleaned in between the grooves. No problems before this, any ideas?

 

[cavcom278]

Did you clean in behind the coil cover? I'd start there. Check your connections.

 

[stlmikie]

And did you check both plugs?

 

[pastor t]

yep, checked both plugs and mad sure everything was connected, I guess I'll pull the coil later tonight and go from there.

 

[stlmikie]

It may be as easy as a glance at the backside of the coil.

 

[Sven]

How much mist could get on the coils? Did you polish and push something out like a connector? No need to pull coil. What you need to do is get a test light with a light in the handle. You ground the light to ground, take the end of the needle and probe the key on wire to the coil. Coils are pretty much bulletproof after just an oil change. I could be wrong.

 

[pastor t]

How much mist could get on the coils? Did you polish and push something out like a connector? No need to pull coil. What you need to do is get a test light with a light in the handle. You ground the light to ground, take the end of the needle and probe the key on wire to the coil. Coils are pretty much bulletproof after just an oil change. I could be wrong.

Thanks sven, I already pulled the coil cover to get at the back But the coil is still hooked up. not sure how to check if I'm getting power to the coil. "take the end of the needle and probe the key on wire to the coil." Could you clarify. Also While up on the lift for the past week I also installed a set of LED lights from front to back. Unhooked all wires going to battery and reattached. Could It be something unhooked at battery? heading out to the garage in a few minutes to check.

Thanks!

 

[Sven]

"take the end of the needle and probe the key on wire to the coil." Could you clarify.

Yeah, I screwed up or maybe it's my code for, "I'm going to go from the battery to key to coil. It's the electrical walk from one station to the next. We have a flow to follow so we can eliminate things.

So say we look at a path or a flow: Battery-to-key switch-to-spark box-to-coil-to spark plug is the basic path. So we start from the beginning is to see if the battery lights up at all with the light probe. Yes, we know the bike turns over with the starter, but back to the walk are our concepts. So we know our source is hot, who cares the volts. It still will light the bulb down the road or down the path is our chase from something either:

1. Connection not connected
2. Wire out of connector
3. Short to ground or no ground

We still have a wire down, or a wire cut internally, so with those variables, we want that wire's integrity right up to the switch. That tells us our wire has not broken, is hooked up to the battery, we have hot to the key switch, probe our next wire out from the key switch. Which switch is hot out to the wire prong on the switch? That's our guy heading to the spark box/slash/coil route.

See, hot is both the coil and the spark box. All the spark box is going to do is trigger the coil on and off from the box. So what we are doing is checking that both jobbers (coil & box) are hot from the switch. Do you see how we could build a wire harness we lay cable one wire at a time, one jobber at a time between wires? It's a straight path... Look how it follows itself to ground is the other end of (+). If you do not get a light to come on, then no (-)...or ground, meaning. Wires cut internally/wire off jobber/connector not connected to ground. Just 3 variables open up tree roots full of variables.

Also While up on the lift for the past week...

BINGO! More important info.... WATT WAS THE LAST "THINK" I DID TO THE BIKE? My guess is 9 times out of 10, the bike does not belly up on its own. Someone tampered with/made a bad connection job to/jobber gets replaced/same thing occurs/wire path down solves the problem. Not, out comes the wallet I gotta buy a coil.

Unhooked all wires going to battery and reattached. Could It be something unhooked at battery?

Has to be. Something was done and now 'Think' watthatrick was? Find it... You'll 20/20 hindsight the problem, be a little bit better being an electrician too.

There it is! See it yet? Best thing to do is walk away from it for the night. You get a fresh perspective the next day and volia'... Well, for me it works.

 

[pastor t]

Ok, checked out battery area nothing out of place or unhooked. After battery is fully charged in the morning I will try to check the coil for power.

 

[pastor t]

Thanks again Sven a fresh look in the morning may be just what I need.

 

[Sven]

Good move. Frustrating but fun. Yes, I find the mental rest helps. I know you'll catch it. It's fun to let it rattle in your head when sleeping. Kind of brings you back to that week and what you did before all this occurred? You think it does. Then it looks at you flat in the face. It's one or the other.

 

[pastor t]

This may be nothing but I removed the "CRANK POSITION SENSOR" so I could get the oil filter wrench on the filter. Could this be related? I tried to go back step by step as you said and I remembered moving it and after looking at it it has a crack in the plastic housing by the screw.

 

[dnespolo]

I think CRANK POSITION SENSOR could be it very much related, happen to me no sparks and was the crank sensor put a new one and I was good to go, I bet that what it is.

 

[Raywood]

This may be nothing but I removed the "CRANK POSITION SENSOR" so I could get the oil filter wrench on the filter. Could this be related? I tried to go back step by step as you said and I remembered moving it and after looking at it it has a crack in the plastic housing by the screw.

The manual has a section in it on testing the sensor. Just look up BDM trouble shooting guide on here and it will explain it all to you.
You do have access to the while forum don't you

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[ground pounder]

no spark

:flag:Hi Tony. It is a very good possibility it is the crank position sensor. There is a test for it if you have a service manual. Sometimes you can clean the end of the sensor off. If it has any metal shavings or anything on it. It's important that it is seated properly in hole it is bolted into. If you don't have a manual. Let me know and I will give you the test procedure for the sensor.:2thumbs:

 

[pastor t]

:flag:Hi Tony. It is a very good possibility it is the crank position sensor. There is a test for it if you have a service manual. Sometimes you can clean the end of the sensor off. If it has any metal shavings or anything on it. It's important that it is seated properly in hole it is bolted into. If you don't have a manual. Let me know and I will give you the test procedure for the sensor.:2thumbs:

I could use the test procedure...Thanks Tom!

 

[pastor t]

Also, it was oily inside the sensor hole. Is that normal or is it oil from my filter change?

 

[DRBarnhart]

I could use the test procedure...

Go here:

http://www.bigdogbiker.com/forums/efi-topics/3810-flowchart-troubleshooting-chart.html

Download the guide and check out page 10.

Also, it was oily inside the sensor hole. Is that normal or is it oil from my filter change?

That hole goes directly into the crankcase and even though it's a "dry sump" system there's going to be some oil...

Dennis

 

[pastor t]

Thanks everyone!:2thumbs: I ran the test for the crank position sensor and I believe that is the culprit. Ordered one and I'll let you know if that gets the dog running!

 

[Sven]

... I remembered moving it and after looking at it it has a crack in the plastic housing by the screw.

I think you found it. No spark = Cracked Crank Sensor. This is watt separates the bike from a boat anchor is this one component. The no spark ~ I moved it ~ screwed it ~ UP!

I believe that crack was enough of a 'dead giveaway.' I'll walk the 3 basic variables and tell me if you narrowed it down.

1. Connectors not connected: Well, your light work was fine, the reconnections were fine, you did good in other words. Just no spark.

2. Wire out of connector: You went over the bike again, would have caught a wire out of a connector if your habit was say, 'disconnected by wires being pulling on, not the connectors. See how one wire could dislodge inside the connector? So no, no male/female connection is in question at a connector end.

3. Signal out of range, short, open: This more sounds like the 3wV (3 wire variable) of the variables that sort of narrows it down. Yes, it can bite you like the 3-amigos (fuel-spark-compression), thinking it's fuel when it was spark that is 180° out of phase is one example.

But for this sensor example, doesn't it bleed 'signal out of range' is no range in sight, i.e., without some meter to show it? Isn't the sensor sort of 'shorted' internally? And it could mean that it's possible that if we could look inside that crack, there is that tiny strand of wire lodged into the bake? By having that wire no longer in that coil winding to make the signal, it bleeds that next one being in that 'open' situation.

Make sense is the 3wV Troubletree?

Also, it was oily inside the sensor hole. Is that normal or is it oil from my filter change?

When you replace the crank sensor, look inside that hole. Turn the crank's flywheel by hand. Oil will whoosh out if spun by the starter. Still, do not get close to the hole even moving by hand, misty eyes. The point is, it should have square blocks cut out of it. It sort of matches WATT the sensor matches. The sensor's output signal produces a square wave. It has an air gap at that sensor nose to flywheel cuts. So yes, oil is normal for that sensor to almost kiss the crank inside the case. And remember the o-ring (if used) can alter that air gap if not used. Every part has a spec or a clearance to follow. A shop manual should have those numbers.

I could be wrong in all this, but... Only your hair dresser knows... Wait a minute... Only your ohm meter knows for sure.