francoblay1
The Spaniard
If my memory is right, Curtis is selling them and he tried one (or was going to) on his Bike?
Let's hear his feedback.
Let's hear his feedback.
Lithium Batterys
- Thread starter cvegmond
- Start date
KaptinAmerika
Guru
Yes WSW is selling a lithium battery.
Lithium batteries are just like a lead acid in that if you abuse them it will damage them ie over charge or over discharge. Bit that's where the similarities end.
Lithium technology has changed dramatically in the last 12 months. The overheating, catching fire and exploding issues have been resolved, at least for power sport batteries, by LifePO4 technology.
The issue now is quality of lithium battery cells and construction of the battery itself.
WSW feels "AntiGravity" has solved these issues.
Generally a lithium battery needs the "2-3 shots" to generate the internal heat it needs to release the energy from the cells in cold weather. I have tested the AntiGravity battery in 40 degree temps and have not experienced this delay, sorry I I've in SoCal so I don't get the temps some of you experience..
Lithium batteries are just like a lead acid in that if you abuse them it will damage them ie over charge or over discharge. Bit that's where the similarities end.
Lithium technology has changed dramatically in the last 12 months. The overheating, catching fire and exploding issues have been resolved, at least for power sport batteries, by LifePO4 technology.
The issue now is quality of lithium battery cells and construction of the battery itself.
WSW feels "AntiGravity" has solved these issues.
Generally a lithium battery needs the "2-3 shots" to generate the internal heat it needs to release the energy from the cells in cold weather. I have tested the AntiGravity battery in 40 degree temps and have not experienced this delay, sorry I I've in SoCal so I don't get the temps some of you experience..
RoadRider
Active Member
In my humble opinion all you get with a Lithium battery is light weight [ not an issue for my dog] and spend a ton more. If you religiously plug your bike into a battery tender and leave it there when your not riding you will have no problems and the battery will last 5+ years if you are buying a good battery. Buy you battery cheap and you get what you paid for. {crap]
KaptinAmerika
Guru
The ONLY reason to leave a battery on a tender is if you have a parasitic draw Lithium or otherwise.
Lithium isn't big yet but it will be.
Lead Acid is old, Eco unfriendly technology.
As the demand increases so shall the supply. As the supply increases prices, hopefully, will come down.
Lithium is green technology also. Use it up throw it in the recycle bin.
Try that with lead acid.
Lithium breaks open and nothing spills out.
Try that with lead acid.
With a properly maintained charging and electrical system a lithium battery will last up to 8 years.
Try that with lead acid.
I could go on and on.
And remember I am talking about Motorcycle batteries not the automobile industry, not old Carbon Lithium technology but the New LifePO4 technology made by A123. A123 knows there business too because they are the same company that almost went bankrupt from the older technology and all the problems, overheating/catching fire/explosions, that went with it. A123 saved themselves by developing the new LifePO4 technology.
This thread gives a much better explanation
Lithium Batteries the real scoop for 2014
If you have the money and want the best a good Lithium battery, 3 phase 40 amp charging system and charging system monitor is more than worth the money.
And seriously, who can't afford to lose a few pounds and gain some space. In lithium's case 10 pounds. Gives one the ability to rearrange their battery box and go to a completely different EHC system if they want to without trying to cram everything into a tiny space on the side of the battery.
Of course all this is just my humble opinion after spending months communicating with some of the brightest in the industry......
Lithium isn't big yet but it will be.
Lead Acid is old, Eco unfriendly technology.
As the demand increases so shall the supply. As the supply increases prices, hopefully, will come down.
Lithium is green technology also. Use it up throw it in the recycle bin.
Try that with lead acid.
Lithium breaks open and nothing spills out.
Try that with lead acid.
With a properly maintained charging and electrical system a lithium battery will last up to 8 years.
Try that with lead acid.
I could go on and on.
And remember I am talking about Motorcycle batteries not the automobile industry, not old Carbon Lithium technology but the New LifePO4 technology made by A123. A123 knows there business too because they are the same company that almost went bankrupt from the older technology and all the problems, overheating/catching fire/explosions, that went with it. A123 saved themselves by developing the new LifePO4 technology.
This thread gives a much better explanation
Lithium Batteries the real scoop for 2014
If you have the money and want the best a good Lithium battery, 3 phase 40 amp charging system and charging system monitor is more than worth the money.
And seriously, who can't afford to lose a few pounds and gain some space. In lithium's case 10 pounds. Gives one the ability to rearrange their battery box and go to a completely different EHC system if they want to without trying to cram everything into a tiny space on the side of the battery.
Of course all this is just my humble opinion after spending months communicating with some of the brightest in the industry......
Last edited:
RoadRider
Active Member
Not trying to get into a pissing match but. Lithium is an easy $100 more that a agm [glass mat] battery. It would take a LONG time for the parasitic value to eat up those kind of dollars. Lead Acid IS recyclable . If a lead acid battery starts to go bad or your charging system is not working properly you will know by hard starting as the battery is partly charged but will still start your bike if you haven't ignored the symptoms for to long. A lithium battery battery gives no warning it just wont start the bike . It is ether charged or it is not no symptoms are displayed before it dies.
I have dealt with Lithium batteries for about 6 or 7 years now and I will agree they will be the wave of the future they just are not there yet. Ask Tesla, Boeing , Dell, and many others that have had issues .
I have dealt with Lithium batteries for about 6 or 7 years now and I will agree they will be the wave of the future they just are not there yet. Ask Tesla, Boeing , Dell, and many others that have had issues .
KaptinAmerika
Guru
No pissing, just discussing.
No argument Lithium is more but, properly maintained, you will get up to twice the life from the new LifePO4 technology.
Your statement "Lead Acid IS recyclable" is true but not in the context of my statement "Lithium is green technology also. Use it up throw it in the recycle bin. Try that with lead acid.". You cannot throw a lead acid battery in the recycle bin. You can take it to an approved disposal location but who has time for that. I have batteries sitting in my shop that I have to take to an approved facility to get rid of them. I wish they were Lithium so I could just throw them in the recycle bin. Lets keep everything in the context of what I stated and not add outside distracting information to the discussion.
No argument that Lithium will give you little to no warning but lead acid can and will do the same thing. It doesn't matter if it barely turns over the motor suddenly your still in the same position as if you had lithium. That is why, Lithium or lead acid, I highly recommend the Monitoring system.
If you have dealt with Lithium for 6 or 7 years then you know the problems they have had.
That is why I made the statement "And remember I am talking about Motorcycle batteries not the automobile or aircraft industry". I am talking about the past 12 months not the last 6 or 7 years.
As to your statement "they just are not there yet." I highly disagree again in terms of Motorcycle batteries. I think we are right at the beginning for that market and do not believe the Lithium battery manufacturers will be looking back. It is only a matter of time before the motorcycle manufacturers are using them and bail on Lead Acid.
And yes, even though again I am not talking about those industries only the motorcycle industry, ask Tesla, Boeing, Dell and many others and you will likely find that they are all in the process of trying to figure out how to move to the new LifePO4 technology.
No argument Lithium is more but, properly maintained, you will get up to twice the life from the new LifePO4 technology.
Your statement "Lead Acid IS recyclable" is true but not in the context of my statement "Lithium is green technology also. Use it up throw it in the recycle bin. Try that with lead acid.". You cannot throw a lead acid battery in the recycle bin. You can take it to an approved disposal location but who has time for that. I have batteries sitting in my shop that I have to take to an approved facility to get rid of them. I wish they were Lithium so I could just throw them in the recycle bin. Lets keep everything in the context of what I stated and not add outside distracting information to the discussion.
No argument that Lithium will give you little to no warning but lead acid can and will do the same thing. It doesn't matter if it barely turns over the motor suddenly your still in the same position as if you had lithium. That is why, Lithium or lead acid, I highly recommend the Monitoring system.
If you have dealt with Lithium for 6 or 7 years then you know the problems they have had.
That is why I made the statement "And remember I am talking about Motorcycle batteries not the automobile or aircraft industry". I am talking about the past 12 months not the last 6 or 7 years.
As to your statement "they just are not there yet." I highly disagree again in terms of Motorcycle batteries. I think we are right at the beginning for that market and do not believe the Lithium battery manufacturers will be looking back. It is only a matter of time before the motorcycle manufacturers are using them and bail on Lead Acid.
And yes, even though again I am not talking about those industries only the motorcycle industry, ask Tesla, Boeing, Dell and many others and you will likely find that they are all in the process of trying to figure out how to move to the new LifePO4 technology.
RoadRider
Active Member
I absolutely agree with you that Lithium or another format is what the future is moving to I just think that waiting a bit before buying one is a smart idea. The idea that Motorcycle batteries are in the for-front of the lithium battery technology is a bit over rated. Lithium is being studied to a much greater extent in aerospace, automotive and computer industries and they will have the final answer as to what we end up with. Jumping on board now just seem like buying a pong game and then seeing an X box . {you my be to young to remember pong 
} Think about the strides we have made in the Lithium motorcycle battery form just 2 years ago give it a little more time and I will be riding your band wagon.
I respect your knowledge on this matter just think you are a bit premature.
} Think about the strides we have made in the Lithium motorcycle battery form just 2 years ago give it a little more time and I will be riding your band wagon. I respect your knowledge on this matter just think you are a bit premature.
KaptinAmerika
Guru
At this point only time will really tell.
BigDogBro1
Made in the USA
True you don't just pitch it in a recycling bin, but
Lead acid batteries are about as GREEN as you can get. Almost all lead acid batteries are recycled and 95+ percent of the battery lead comes from recycled batteries and not new smelted lead.
That's what the core charges are for is to get you to return the OLD battery for recycling.
I am not sure what lithium technology the lithium battery uses that's mentioned above but the LiPO battery packs used in the radio control model market must be charged with very special balance chargers that monitor and control each individual cell of the battery pack.
I do hope the technology advances soon so we can all rest easy.
Lead acid batteries are about as GREEN as you can get. Almost all lead acid batteries are recycled and 95+ percent of the battery lead comes from recycled batteries and not new smelted lead.
That's what the core charges are for is to get you to return the OLD battery for recycling.
I am not sure what lithium technology the lithium battery uses that's mentioned above but the LiPO battery packs used in the radio control model market must be charged with very special balance chargers that monitor and control each individual cell of the battery pack.
I do hope the technology advances soon so we can all rest easy.
Last edited:
KaptinAmerika
Guru
"True you don't just pitch it in a recycling bin, but "
No 'but' its just true.
"Lead acid batteries are about as GREEN as you can get. Almost all lead acid batteries are recycled and 95+ percent of the battery lead comes from recycled batteries and not new smelted lead.
That's what the core charges are for is to get you to return the OLD battery for recycling."
"Lithium is green technology also. Use it up throw it in the recycle bin. Try that with lead acid."
About as Green as you can get is not Green.
Green is what I am talking about. I don't want to pay a core charge, I don't want to buy the battery, go home and replace it and then go all the way back to the store to get my core charge back. There are no special recycling procedures, no worry about people who are less than honest letting the harmful toxins of the lead acid batteries end up in our eco system etc etc.
The only critical aspect of the AntiGravity battery in terms of a charger is that the charger not be allowed to exceed 14.8 volts when charging the battery. Antigravity uses and sells Optimate battery chargers for this reason. In addition Optimate now has a special charger dedicated just to Lithium batteries but it is not necessary in order to charge the Antigravity battery correctly. However it does offer some additional features for Lithium batteries not offered on other chargers.
I might add that I have communicated with Antigravity in regards to having circuitry inside their batteries that would absolutely prevent overcharging or over discharging. They have stated that they are examining this idea but to date have not had a reason to implement it.
And again I am not talking about any other industry other than motorcycles. That is the industry I work in that is what Antigravity makes batteries for and that is the only industry that I am examining and gathering data in.
Obviously if an individual makes their living in the lead acid battery industry their going to come up with every possible reason and criticism to try and discourage people form buying into the Lithium market and currently there are some negatives, ie cost, but those negatives are disappearing fast and the industry needs support to keep moving forward.
And for some Lithium is absolutely not the way to go. If you ride an old school bike with an alternator system or a newer bike with a low end charging system and don't want to upgrade then you absolutely do not want to get into Lithium. But for those who like the technology and want to invest in it I firmly believe in my humble opinion, as RoadRider so eloquently put it, that now is a good time for many to start moving towards the technology IN THE MOTORCYCLE INDUSTRY.
No 'but' its just true.
"Lead acid batteries are about as GREEN as you can get. Almost all lead acid batteries are recycled and 95+ percent of the battery lead comes from recycled batteries and not new smelted lead.
That's what the core charges are for is to get you to return the OLD battery for recycling."
"Lithium is green technology also. Use it up throw it in the recycle bin. Try that with lead acid."
About as Green as you can get is not Green.
Green is what I am talking about. I don't want to pay a core charge, I don't want to buy the battery, go home and replace it and then go all the way back to the store to get my core charge back. There are no special recycling procedures, no worry about people who are less than honest letting the harmful toxins of the lead acid batteries end up in our eco system etc etc.
The only critical aspect of the AntiGravity battery in terms of a charger is that the charger not be allowed to exceed 14.8 volts when charging the battery. Antigravity uses and sells Optimate battery chargers for this reason. In addition Optimate now has a special charger dedicated just to Lithium batteries but it is not necessary in order to charge the Antigravity battery correctly. However it does offer some additional features for Lithium batteries not offered on other chargers.
I might add that I have communicated with Antigravity in regards to having circuitry inside their batteries that would absolutely prevent overcharging or over discharging. They have stated that they are examining this idea but to date have not had a reason to implement it.
And again I am not talking about any other industry other than motorcycles. That is the industry I work in that is what Antigravity makes batteries for and that is the only industry that I am examining and gathering data in.
Obviously if an individual makes their living in the lead acid battery industry their going to come up with every possible reason and criticism to try and discourage people form buying into the Lithium market and currently there are some negatives, ie cost, but those negatives are disappearing fast and the industry needs support to keep moving forward.
And for some Lithium is absolutely not the way to go. If you ride an old school bike with an alternator system or a newer bike with a low end charging system and don't want to upgrade then you absolutely do not want to get into Lithium. But for those who like the technology and want to invest in it I firmly believe in my humble opinion, as RoadRider so eloquently put it, that now is a good time for many to start moving towards the technology IN THE MOTORCYCLE INDUSTRY.
Last edited: