Lithium Batterys

Dawgboy · Oct 5, 2012

Not the Shorai, but a bud tried a lithium. Battery had an internal short and lasted about 5 sec. I am sure AGMs can fail as well. Li was incredibly light.

PROFLYER · Oct 5, 2012

I have one in my CBR1000RR. I like it, small and light. I bought a braille when my battery died finally but I don't think it's any better than the old big dog one. The lithium ones are great, they just can be fickle about charging systems.

Jersey Big Mike · Oct 5, 2012

I just put the Shorai in my 08 K-9 the 405 CCA unit you mentioned.
It's absurdly light.
It changes how you start when cold/chilly.
The first hit it sounds dead
wait 20 seconds
The second hit - it sounds weak
wait 20 seconds
The third hit - it sounds like a full charge and you should start if all else is well
Mine needs the 4th hit usually but was also taking several shots with lead acid to start in the morning.

Once you get used to that, it seems fine. I'm hoiping it does better as all the lead acid I've used have never had great longevity.

I replaced the battery last year and I was starting to hear the signs of weakness already, not leaving me hanging but just the change of power that you hear when you know its not a fresh new battery.

Since I'm headed on a trip I decided to be preventative and try this. Will keep everyone posted on my results.

battery was $252 and if I get 2 or more seasons out of it will be worth it since most I normally get is 1yr out of a lead acid. (10-15K miles)

BigDogBro1 · Oct 5, 2012

cvegmond said:
No, I don't beleive the silly Youtube videos of exploding lithium batteries. This battery needs to be a proper application of the technology as it is in lithium-ion batteries for electric cars and motorcycles.

Not silly at all. You just explained why: "This battery needs to be a proper application of the technology as it is in lithium-ion batteries for electric cars and motorcycles"

The charging systems on the Bigdog MC do not nor will not properly or safely charge a Lithium-Ion type battery.

Don't get suckered into thinking a Lithium-Ion battery will safely work in a Bigdog MC.

There are other posts on this forum and web information warning against using a Lithium battery in conventional AGM/Lead Acid battery charging systems...search and read them.

Drag bikes can use these Lithium-Ion type batteries because they don't run charging systems.

If anyone claims a Lithium-Ion battery will properly charge and be safe in a Bigdog, they are incorrect.

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/02/02/lithium-ion-polymer-motorcycle-batteries/
"The potential for problems in terms of the charging circuitry is a bit worrisome (overcharging or incorrectly charging could mean hydrogen evolution or lithium zero instead of lithium ion which gets explosive with any moisture)."

PROFLYER · Oct 5, 2012

How you bridge cat food and a battery is beyond me.

I've been around long enough to see where this is going: guy asks a question on a forum looking for SUPPORTING responses. Doesn't get full support, argues with people who respond and know better....does it anyway....outcome is a coin toss.

Call any of the manufacturers and they'll tell you the Li batteries work BEST with the proper charging system (theirs, standalone). Our dogs are not that robust and require a lot of the battery. Hell the starter alone is to the same specs as a small diesel motor starter.

But do whatever you want man, we'll sign you off solo, let us know how it goes?

migai082681 · Oct 6, 2012

I have a Braille battery and it works fine. Have had it about 5 months now no problem. Work 10x better than the acid batterys

Th3InfamousI · Oct 6, 2012

I really haven't researched this enough. So I haven't figured out what kind of charging system is "ideal" for these type of batteries. I did reach out to the vendor for some additional information. Figured I would share what I have so far.

Questions / Comment : I am curious if there are any special requirements for use of your batteries in a motorcycle application. My understanding is that Lithium batteries requiring a different style charging system over standard AGM Glass Mat batteries. However I d not see any details stating such on your website.

Do you have any further information and testing on using lithium batteries with a conventional motorcycle charging system?

______________________________________________

From: "Shawn Ovens" <salestech@shorai.org>
Date: Oct 5, 2012 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: Shorai Contact request
To: Eric,

There are no special requirements. The motorcycle charges our battery the exact same way as a lead acid or AGM. Standard chargers such as a Battery Tender can be used to charge the battery back to full charge if it ever gets low from lack of use. If your bike has a digital clock or any other equipment that creates a small draw while the bike is not being used and you plan to not ride for an extended period of time (over a month) you may need a charger for storage. That is the only situation that the Shorai lithium battery requires anything different for. Lead acid and AGM hold their capacity fro 12 to 14 volts, most all of the Shorai's capacity is held in a higher more usable range above 13 volts. For this reason you would want to use the Shorai charger if you plan to not ride the bike for extended periods so it stay at proper voltage.

Let me know if you have more questions,

francoblay1 · Oct 23, 2013

Anyone has been using any of these Lithium-Ion Batteries? Any feed-back?

:cheers:

grizfish · Oct 26, 2013

Not trying to create more confusion about Lithium Batteries, but my personal experience with early, pre-consumer Li batteries could give you another perspective about safety and internal shorting.

Dawgboy's statement about his bud's experience is relevant: "Battery (Li) had an internal short."

About 1978 I was designing a power supply circuit. This was part of a digital communication device that connected to ANPRC-25 radios for forward observers to call in artillery missions. We were given some recently developed Li batteries and instructed not to short the leads because there was an internal safety fuse that would 'blow' rendering the battery useless. Also told that without the fuse the battery would blow up if shorted. Basically, these early Li batteries were capable of providing enough current to overheat uncontrollably.

I don't know specifics about how manufacturers control the output current to make them safe for consumers, but Dawgboy's statement makes sense to me.

Viking · Oct 26, 2013

I look forward to see more post from guys who has actually used it over time. As for me, it sits too close to the family jewels for me to be the test monkey. I have it in my power tools and with that I am very very impressed about its performance. Keep us updated about its long term performance....:2thumbs:

Jerseykat1 · Nov 13, 2013

i have successfully and reliably used a lithium ion shoria battery (says it right on the box that it works with conventional charging systems) in my high compression sportster (86 sportster with the shity charging system - cured my problems) and it worked great, it cured my problem of having a dead battery every few weeks because the early evo sportsters had shity charging systems, even when working properly.. Its charging range is the normal charging system range 13.5-14.9 volts (says so in the liturature it comes with).. They are designed for automototive and MC duties so im sure there is ciurcuitry inside to prevent overcharging and such.. most likely why they are kinda of expensive.

Nukeranger · Nov 13, 2013

I have a Shorai and a special charger for it and only use it for my Hog Cooler vest to circulate ice cold water during the summer to keep me cool. I may try it in my Daytona 675 when the battery gives out only as an experiment but never the Big Dog.

prairiehorse · Jan 23, 2014

I have used the Braille and it was awesome! I have just gotten a lithium... i was pissed the first time it turned it over as it just stuttered like a dead battery. Did research and found Jersey Big Mike's post regarding the multiple tries on the starter....it works like he says. I have read many of the posts regarding the charging system requirements/ battery requirements etc... has anyone actually called the battery company and asked why this happens? It si almost like the lithium has to spool up in oder to spin the BD starter, but once it is ready she really fires. I will update later this year on how it goes. Anyone who has knowledge of why it takes the 3 shots b4 it fires the bike plz post.

woodbutcher · Jan 27, 2014

prairiehorse said:
I have used the Braille and it was awesome! I have just gotten a lithium... i was pissed the first time it turned it over as it just stuttered like a dead battery. Did research and found Jersey Big Mike's post regarding the multiple tries on the starter....it works like he says. I have read many of the posts regarding the charging system requirements/ battery requirements etc... has anyone actually called the battery company and asked why this happens? It si almost like the lithium has to spool up in oder to spin the BD starter, but once it is ready she really fires. I will update later this year on how it goes. Anyone who has knowledge of why it takes the 3 shots b4 it fires the bike plz post.

when it comes to lithium batteries, i know a whole lot less the the next guy, but in my reading, it is said that the lithium and the big dog charging system do not like each other, even to the point of causing the battery to catch fire.
PLEASE, use caution.

Viking · Feb 2, 2014

So, is there a market for Lithium batteries combined with a charging system and a starter that can handle it?

If one can make the performance as superior as it is in battery tools I would dare to say there is a market for it. Personally, the old system has worked just great for me but I would be willing to listen to the first vendor that offers a complete system for our dogs.

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