Hello,looking for some help with a 03 chopper that i have been rebuilding.Every time i test the starter the jam bolt backs out.Yes the washers are in place and set in place.It bent the tap and backs out.Any help would be great!Going to wear out cover bolts removing putting on removing putting on........
Jam Bolt
- Thread starter ezie112
- Start date
Mr. Wright
Knows some things
Bolt is probably wore out. Try a new one and put a dab of blue locktight on it.
heybaylor
Active Member
as in a earlier post , reverse polarity, will make it run backwards, new starter wont help...…...
Check your wiring, again, especially at the batt, and starter solenoid .
bench test the starter and reverse the leads, see if it runs forward..
hang in there , you will get it right
FrankBDPS
Well-Known Member
I usually don't post my opinions about electrical issues because things can get mixed up and confused pretty fast on a forum.
I am assuming the negative battery terminal is connected to the bike frame. That's how it should be.
If the lead from the starter solenoid is connected to the negative terminal on the battery and the negative battery terminal is connected to the frame of the bike as it should be the starter would not run at all. You would have two negatives going to the starter. Correct?
If you have the positive battery terminal connected to the bike frame and connected the lead from the starter solenoid to the positive terminal on the battery again the starter would not run. You would have to positives going to the starter.
What I am saying is if the starter motor runs it is unlikely you have it connected improperly.
Is this a new starter or is it the origional that was on the bike?
To reverse the direction on a D.C. Motor you would need to reverse either the field winding leads or the armature leads not both of them. This would have to be done inside the starter motor it self. If it is a new starter and it is running in the wrong direction there is a connection problem internally.
If the starter is running backwards you're engine would not even try to start. It would be turning backwards of course. If you have been turning the engine backwards I hope you have not done any internal damage to it.
I hope this helps and dosent add any more confusion.
I am assuming the negative battery terminal is connected to the bike frame. That's how it should be.
If the lead from the starter solenoid is connected to the negative terminal on the battery and the negative battery terminal is connected to the frame of the bike as it should be the starter would not run at all. You would have two negatives going to the starter. Correct?
If you have the positive battery terminal connected to the bike frame and connected the lead from the starter solenoid to the positive terminal on the battery again the starter would not run. You would have to positives going to the starter.
What I am saying is if the starter motor runs it is unlikely you have it connected improperly.
Is this a new starter or is it the origional that was on the bike?
To reverse the direction on a D.C. Motor you would need to reverse either the field winding leads or the armature leads not both of them. This would have to be done inside the starter motor it self. If it is a new starter and it is running in the wrong direction there is a connection problem internally.
If the starter is running backwards you're engine would not even try to start. It would be turning backwards of course. If you have been turning the engine backwards I hope you have not done any internal damage to it.
I hope this helps and dosent add any more confusion.
The the input has been great.This is what I have at this point wiring is correct the starter is spinning Clockwise ,it engages the clutch and bam the jam nut spins out .I have replaced the bolt ,drop red threadlocker ,torque down 60 inch pounds. about to break out welder !
Thank again for all the input
Frustrated !!!
Thank again for all the input
Frustrated !!!
Bolt new, and lock tabs in place??
Is the starter new? Internal threads on jackshaft could be messed up or maybe jackshaft is binding on the bushing causing the resistance force to spin counterclockwise.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
Is the starter new? Internal threads on jackshaft could be messed up or maybe jackshaft is binding on the bushing causing the resistance force to spin counterclockwise.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
LHS
Active Member
If your starter is turning clockwise looking at it from the direction in this picture it’s turning the right way.
I don’t believe it’s possible to have the wiring wrong and make it turn counterclockwise.
That would have to be done internally on the starter which would make it a factory defect and it would
never have turned the correct way. Here’s a dumb question have you got the bike to turn over at all or just the starter. If not Pull your spark plugs out put it in six gear leave the clutch out and see if the motor turns over when you try to roll it forward. I’m just stabbing in the dark here it’s hard to diagnose something when you don’t have it right in front of you and not a whole Lotta information to go on But you are in the right place to get it figured out. There’s a lot of people on this site with a whole lot of experience on these big dogs . And just so you know I’m not one of them. LOL
I’m just saying if your starter is turning clockwise like it supposed to and you used red Loctite on that bolt and you got the washers on there with the locking tabs locked into the gear drive and the other ones locked on to the bolt then it sounds like The bolt is worn out and/or locking tab washers are worn out or something in the motor or transmission is locked up and the initial hit of that starter is busting that bolt loose and spreading them tabs out to let it back out .
But there again I’m not an expert on these dogs so I’m not sure exactly what kind of starter they used on the 03 but without Pictures or seeing it I am assuming yours is like the Harley starter that has the bolt and locking tab washers.
Not like the picture below.
But it still should turn clockwise.
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LHS
Active Member
You know sitting here thinking about this shouldn’t that drive gear be Splined or have a key way . It’s been Many years since I had a starter apart but I don’t believe that drive gear should spin free on the shaft And be able to back that bolt out. Those locking tabs are just to hold the bolt in place not to keep the drive gear from spinning on the shaft so if it is I would think one of the two are missing or stripped off - keyway/splines so when the starter engages it just spins the shaft and not the drive gear and backs that bold out. ????
But there again I don’t know what they use for a starter on a 03 bigdog Which tells you right there I’m definitely not a bigdog expert LOL
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I too have zero BD experience. Never took a wrench to one. But generically speaking, I'm looking at one motor gear output design on the photo, and this has a circlip holding the gear. The other style is what harley uses and that's where the shaft moves out and the primary cover has the shaft being stabilized in the cover.
So are we talking harley style? Are we seeing the long screw with the limited threads up the bolt? Is the shaft slotted for the washer tab to be stationary, and the other tab on that same washer, which bends over the flat of the long bolt? And are we saying the tab over the flat can be bent out and the bolt goes loose?
Got a photo of this style setup?
LHS
Active Member
Sven
I believe he has the old HARLEY style with the retainer bolt and locking tab washer.
Which in any case that bolt and locking tab washer does not keep the drive gear from spinning on the shaft it Has to have a keyway or splines for that and the bold is to keep the drive gear from sliding off of the end of the shaft and the locking Tab washer is to keep the bolt from backing out/coming loose.
I was just using the picture of that starter to demonstrate to Ezie112 which Direction to look at the starter for orientation to determine clockwise rotation.
I believe this is what we’re talking about
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Ronnie's Harley-Davidson's 2006 Harley Davidson FLHTCI ELECTRA GLIDE® CLASSIC (FF) | ELECTRICAL - STARTER ASSEMBLY Parts List
It kind of does and does not work. 42 can be flipped in reverse because 16 is not clipped in the center of that coupling. Do we have the correct direction there? And that too brings the threads of the bolt farther out of 40. And note on 40 is the blackened slot cut for 39's tang. But now that I think about it, 16 would push 17 farther out and be locked onto the basket's gear, right? So we assume it can only be put together one way, meaning, if gear [does not] ride over gear... on assembly.
Only thing I can come up with would be the threads inside 40. Something like 16 keeps jumping over threads inside 40 and keeps backing out. I noticed the torque is acquired by said pulling on the threads, so that's out. 40-42-17 remain locked in place by 6. No way can 6 spin out if 39 has the fold tab over the bolt flat and the lock tang sliding into that black slot on part 40.
Other than that, I might be missing something.
Edit: Oh boy, here comes the hindsight.
LHS
Active Member
So what you’re saying is you didn’t have the coupler in there So when you engage the starter the shaft would spin and not engage the gear and back the bolt out
Cool I knew Something had to lock that shaft to the gear when you engage the starter other than the bolt and locking washer but
It’s been so long since I had the one apart and I’ve only had one apart of that style I couldnot remember exactly how it worked.
Glad you figured it out dude we all make mistakes that’s how we learn.
Cool I knew Something had to lock that shaft to the gear when you engage the starter other than the bolt and locking washer but
It’s been so long since I had the one apart and I’ve only had one apart of that style I couldnot remember exactly how it worked.
Glad you figured it out dude we all make mistakes that’s how we learn.
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Mr. Wright
Knows some things
Don't feel too bad, we all get brain gas now in then