I just joined the NO SPARK ClUB!

[2004BC]

I just got in from pushing my 2004 Ridgeback 107 1 mile :down:, collapsing :down:, then sending the wife back home to get the golf cart to tow me the last 2 miles to my house :up:. Stopped for gas in town, hit the starter, it ran for a brief couple of seconds then shut off . The unmistakeable smell of burnt elecetronics rose up from beneath my butt . After reading all of the BDB posts the last 3 months I had a pretty good idea it was fatal. I put a screw driver in the plug boot and turned it over, no spark. I had a new spare Thunderheart so I called my wife to bring it down in the car. 2 minute swap out and still no spark. It was worth a shot! I have AAA for towing but I didn't want to take any chances with the Dog so I got it home the hard way. Oh well, I least I wasn't surprised thanks to all of the folks posting their experiences here at BDB. So, here is what it does now ( I took a shower, drank a gallon of water, and just went out to check on the BEAST!)

1 - Turn key on, no lights on the Thunderheart or computer underneath it.
2 - Push RUN button both the Thunderheart and the electronic device (EHBC?) below it light up with red lights.
3 - Push the starter button both lights pulse ( I think from the crank sensor ) but NO spark.

NOW, what is the prognosis from all of you esteemed Big Dog Doctors AND what is the best way to fix this situation so that it never happens again. I intend to be buried riding this bike so I want to fix it right the first time. I know I could search but I want to be absolutely positive so I'd like to hear it directly from those that have been there done that. THANKS!:2thumbs:

 

[chacha]

2004BC wrote;

...what is the best way to fix this situation so that it never happens again. I intend to be buried riding this bike so I want to fix it right the first time.

Ain't nothing gonna fix this issue right till the EHC is ripped out. But that is PROBABLY NOT your problem here.

Questions for you to answer;

1) You said you smelled "burnt electronics" -- not gonna be the Thunderheart, so it would have to be the EHC. Does the EHC look normal are are their burns in/on it?

2) Which lights on the EHC are coming on (numbered left to right looking at the back of the bike) when you hit the run button? The start button?

3) Are you getting power to the coil?

4) any problems with the lights/turn signals?

More to follow based on the answers.....

 

[lee]

well if you could smell burning then you should be able to fairly easily spot where that was coming from. Could just be a short somewhere. Could be loose connections at the battery terminalsalthough not sure that would have caused your symptoms. Anyway, look to see if you can find what is burnt and report back. If you have some arcing somewhere it would probably show itself if you try to start your bike somewhere dark.

 

[2004BC]

More troubleshooting info

Thanks guys! Here's more info.

0 - All lights come on and function normally. Meaning headlight, signals, etc.

1 - Turn on key and 2nd light from right on the EHC (if you were sitting on the bike looking down) flashes yellow then goes out. I didn't look for that before.

2 - Push Run button and the 3rd light from right on EHC and Thunderheart turn on steady red.

3 - Pulled coil cover and checked terminal continuity to ground. minimal probably reading back through EHC

4 - Turned on ignition switch still no voltage to input terminals of coil.

5 - Pushed Run switch and read 12 VDC to battery negative on both input terminals of coil.

6 - Turned everything back off and measured 3.7 Ohms between 2 input terminals of coil still wired to bike.

7 - Pulled plug wires and measured 11.7 K Ohms between output terminals which didn't change when I turned the key on and hit run button.

Now I have NO idea what's wrong. ..............help...........

 

[2004BC]

well if you could smell burning then you should be able to fairly easily spot where that was coming from. Could just be a short somewhere. Could be loose connections at the battery terminalsalthough not sure that would have caused your symptoms. Anyway, look to see if you can find what is burnt and report back. If you have some arcing somewhere it would probably show itself if you try to start your bike somewhere dark.

Didn't see any arcing when turning on, off, or cranking. I WISH I saw the proverbial smoking gun!!!! Always easier to troubleshoot when you actually see fire smoke or lightning bolts of arcing electricity! Guess it's the hard way. Thanks.

 

[BadBrad]

Did you pull the EHC and inspect it for an obvious "hot spot" where it may look like the solid state material may have melted?

 

[2004BC]

BC,
I think that you'll find that the problem is "not" with your coil or ignition. The power for both come from the EHC.
Check your batt. terminal connection for clean & tight. While your batt. is disconnected, "carefully disconnect both "D" connectors on your ehc. Check for moisture, corrosion, shorts and cleanliness, once clean install liberal coating of dielectric grease into the holes of the female connector plugs. Carefully reconnect to the EHC, being careful to only lightly tighten plug screws. Then reconnect batt. and retry for defaults.

dead

Ahhhh..... sounds like a good idea. The batt terminals are tight. Cranks over like a son of a gun! BUT looking down at the EHC is does look like some corrosion between the 1, 2, 3 lights from the right. Makes the rest of the connections etc suspect. I'll disassemble the EHC and look for any noticeable burn marks where the solid state components burned the potting material and connection issues. Thanks!

If this is the case and the EHC is dead what is the best way to reengineer the electronic control system. Any proven plug and play replacement? If not what is best? I have a lot of experience wiring industrial machinery so no problem doing the repairs!

 

[2004BC]

Did you pull the EHC and inspect it for an obvious "hot spot" where it may look like the solid state material may have melted?

Will do!!! I'll bet that's what I smelled when it croaked! Thanks!

 

[kurtxt]

Look in the how to section of forums,alot of guys are getting rid of the ehc set up and going with the wire plus replacement.This will maintain all your factory lites and switches,except for ignition switch change.When i have ehc issues this is what i will do bike still under warranty.2007 k-9

 

[mobsta]

i have the replacement ehc.working great so far.didnt now about the wire plus at that time.ditch it if you need a replacement.

 

[2004BC]

Before I finish EHC extraction I found this yellow wire from the EHC falling out of some rigged up connection to 2 green wires. Is there a chance this caused my no spark situation? I'll wait for a reply before I continue disassembly. Thanks everyone for your help!

 

[mobsta]

the yellow wire plugs into those green wires which goes to the compression releases.i would think that is part of your ignition system.did you plug it back in?

 

[Old Hippy]

Before I finish EHC extraction I found this yellow wire from the EHC falling out of some rigged up connection to 2 green wires. Is there a chance this caused my no spark situation? I'll wait for a reply before I continue disassembly. Thanks everyone for your help!

Might I ask you to do one thing for me?? Check the bottom of your seat to make sure nothing arced there??? It will be obvious.!!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[2004BC]

the yellow wire plugs into those green wires which goes to the compression releases.i would think that is part of your ignition system.did you plug it back in?

I should have just done that but I was having a lazy moment so I posted instead. Do you think the EHC has to see a completed compression release circuit before it would allow sparK? Thanks!

 

[2004BC]

Might I ask you to do one thing for me?? Check the bottom of your seat to make sure nothing arced there??? It will be obvious.!!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just ran out and checked. Looks good! Felt is intact, no burns. It cranked over fine just just no spark. I'll hook up the yellow wire and try it before I give up on the EHC! Thanks.

 

[2004BC]

I should have just done that but I was having a lazy moment so I posted instead. Do you think the EHC has to see a completed compression release circuit before it would allow sparK? Thanks!

OK I have the answer to my own question! I fixed the wire, put it back together, cranked it over (with no seat on for possible shorts) and the result, still zero spark. Everything lit up like normal, WAIT!!!! I just went out to double check that the red lights on the Thunderheart and EHC pulsed when I cranked it over and they don't! They stay solid red. Same positions as described in my earlier post. Does this mean the cam shaft sensor is faulty? It's not giving the EHC a signal to fire?

What do you think? I just don't want to throw parts at problems to fix them. Call me old school but I want a positive diagnosis so I fix it right and I fix it once! Thanks!

 

[2004BC]

IT'S ALIVE!!!! I finally got around to fixing the "no spark". Thanks to everyone who helped me diagnose it. It was the cam sensor. Tampa BD was kind enough to run the history of my bike and I have a new 2006 EHC so that was a little bit of a relief. Although most said look for a crack in the sensor potting material I think mine exploded. The stink of burnt electrical was nauseating! Cleaned everything up, changed the sensor, and fired right up. All is well now and I'm right with the universe!!!

 

[Raywood]

IT'S ALIVE!!!! I finally got around to fixing the "no spark". Thanks to everyone who helped me diagnose it. It was the cam sensor. Tampa BD was kind enough to run the history of my bike and I have a new 2006 EHC so that was a little bit of a relief. Although most said look for a crack in the sensor potting material I think mine exploded. The stink of burnt electrical was nauseating! Cleaned everything up, changed the sensor, and fired right up. All is well now and I'm right with the universe!!!


Holy cow that thing is smoked!! Does your pipe flow real close to the cam cover? Been a problem for some in the past.
Did you replace it with a stock unit or go with an after market piece?

Glad you are back on the road. :2thumbs:

 

[2004BC]

Hi Ray,
Thanks for the troubleshooting guide. I appreciate it. The pipes aren't near the cam cover. Well, they are drag pipes with no shielding and they are about 2" below the cover but I don't think that's too close.
It looks like it shorted to ground, heated up, and melted all over the place. The 2 tabs that sense the metal/gaps/metal in the trigger were completely charcoal. When I was originally sitting on the bike trying to start it and it wouldn't fire the smell of burnt electrical was pretty heavy around me. Now I know why!!! 20 minutes of Carb cleaner and rubbing finally dissolved all of the baked on crud.
I replaced it with a stock unit. If there is a better aftermarket part please let me know. I'll buy it and keep it for backup. I'm pretty sure this will happen again at some point so I'd rather be prepared.

 

[repairman]

Just gutted the ehc out of my buddys rewired it with the wiring kit from Low Down Chop Shop. had pretty much the same problem you are having didn't smell any burning. As soon as I was finished turned on the new key supplied with the kit all lights worked and the bike fired right over. Bike is a 2004 Chopper there wiill be no more manual riding of this bike. Happy as hell with the new wiring kit.

I just got in from pushing my 2004 Ridgeback 107 1 mile :down:, collapsing :down:, then sending the wife back home to get the golf cart to tow me the last 2 miles to my house :up:. Stopped for gas in town, hit the starter, it ran for a brief couple of seconds then shut off . The unmistakeable smell of burnt elecetronics rose up from beneath my butt . After reading all of the BDB posts the last 3 months I had a pretty good idea it was fatal. I put a screw driver in the plug boot and turned it over, no spark. I had a new spare Thunderheart so I called my wife to bring it down in the car. 2 minute swap out and still no spark. It was worth a shot! I have AAA for towing but I didn't want to take any chances with the Dog so I got it home the hard way. Oh well, I least I wasn't surprised thanks to all of the folks posting their experiences here at BDB. So, here is what it does now ( I took a shower, drank a gallon of water, and just went out to check on the BEAST!)

1 - Turn key on, no lights on the Thunderheart or computer underneath it.
2 - Push RUN button both the Thunderheart and the electronic device (EHBC?) below it light up with red lights.
3 - Push the starter button both lights pulse ( I think from the crank sensor ) but NO spark.

NOW, what is the prognosis from all of you esteemed Big Dog Doctors AND what is the best way to fix this situation so that it never happens again. I intend to be buried riding this bike so I want to fix it right the first time. I know I could search but I want to be absolutely positive so I'd like to hear it directly from those that have been there done that. THANKS!:2thumbs: