outdoorsman26
Well-Known Member
hl2t lifters.... how do you know if you have them?? talked to s&s and they said i did??? all I told him was that I had a 07 BD Mastiff:loony:
hl2t lifters
- Thread starter outdoorsman26
- Start date
knucklehead
Member
what are they? Are you still getting some lifter noise?
outdoorsman26
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I have been told bout 4 different ways to set my lifters and I am starting to get nervous that I did it wrong!!!:angry::angry::bang::bang:
I set them by taking the front cyl to tdcc adjusting intake to zero lash plus 4 turns, and waitng for it to bleed down then the exhaust the same way, and then to the rear cyl.. tdcc intake.......... anyway I keep getting this feeling I fucked it up!!!!!
And I dont know what they are the S&S tech said I had them and I have to set my lifters differently!!!
I set them by taking the front cyl to tdcc adjusting intake to zero lash plus 4 turns, and waitng for it to bleed down then the exhaust the same way, and then to the rear cyl.. tdcc intake.......... anyway I keep getting this feeling I fucked it up!!!!!
And I dont know what they are the S&S tech said I had them and I have to set my lifters differently!!!
knucklehead
Member
Did he say what to do different? I just went to the s&s website and downloaded the instructions from there and everything seems fine.
Sounds like you did it right, maybe what you are hearing is normal valve noise?
Sounds like you did it right, maybe what you are hearing is normal valve noise?
outdoorsman26
Well-Known Member
he sent me instructions for the s&s hydraulic lifter limited travel kit
Fibersnake
Banjo Playing PsychoBilly
My 05 did come with them!
MARV
Well-Known Member
Tim, did your manual have instructions for adjusting the rods with limiters? my 05 manual only has the instructions for without.
i installed limiters in mine and the adjustment is different.
TDC
bottom out the lifter (after bleed down it doesnt spin)
go to zero lash
1 full turn looser
john sachs
Well-Known Member
Lesson. 
Normal S&S pushrod adjustment is 4 TURNS after free play is removed.
If you are UNABLE to turn the pushrod with your fingers after a reasonable period of time(time to let lifter bleed down),then you can bet you have travel limiters in the lifters.......
If you have travel limiters,then the procdure changes:
4 turns,pushrod WON'T turn with fingers,slowly shorten pushrod untill you can JUST turn it with your fingers.Go another 1/2 TURN loose,and your done.:up:
John
BE SURE YOU'RE on TDC..COMPRESSION,and NOT TDC..OVERLAP.........
Normal S&S pushrod adjustment is 4 TURNS after free play is removed.
If you are UNABLE to turn the pushrod with your fingers after a reasonable period of time(time to let lifter bleed down),then you can bet you have travel limiters in the lifters.......
If you have travel limiters,then the procdure changes:
4 turns,pushrod WON'T turn with fingers,slowly shorten pushrod untill you can JUST turn it with your fingers.Go another 1/2 TURN loose,and your done.:up:
John
BE SURE YOU'RE on TDC..COMPRESSION,and NOT TDC..OVERLAP.........
bigdogtech01
Well-Known Member
Did you ever go back in to make sure you had the .640 springs that I talked with you about? Also did you check to make sure you had the correct spring height for the .600 cam? Just because some guys on here told you the red mark on the spring is the correct spring does not mean it is. It needs 3 springs, not 2. BDM and S&S did not put the high lift .640 springs into that motor. It is an EPA motor with just 2 springs able to go to .585 lift max. Even so, anytime you change cams you want to check your spring height to match the cam being used. Sounds like the S&S tech is not wanting to talk with you because it is a Bigdog. They did not use that style lifter in that motor unless someone has been into that bike already..???Yeah, I have been told bout 4 different ways to set my lifters and I am starting to get nervous that I did it wrong!!!:angry::angry::bang::bang:
I set them by taking the front cyl to tdcc adjusting intake to zero lash plus 4 turns, and waitng for it to bleed down then the exhaust the same way, and then to the rear cyl.. tdcc intake.......... anyway I keep getting this feeling I fucked it up!!!!!
And I dont know what they are the S&S tech said I had them and I have to set my lifters differently!!!
You never answered my question about being the original owner of the bike, are you? Just trying to figure out why someone told you to put the .600 cam in with stock valve springs.:loony:
outdoorsman26
Well-Known Member
sorry bout that!! yes I am the original owner of the bike i am in the process of taking the top end apart and getting those springs out!! why being a big dog owner makes s&s techs mad we keep them in business????
Fibersnake
Banjo Playing PsychoBilly
Marv, I go to zero lash (wait about 10 Min) check lash again (no drag) and then just loose enough to spin with slight drag. But instead of trying to get to TDC on the right cycle. I use a dial indicator and put it on one of the lifter and turn it until it is at full travel, then I adjust the opposing cylinder same valve.
I do tend to go with the 3 flats or about 1/2 turn looser also.
I see there is some question if some of the stock had HLT or not. Was not sure myself, thought the original adds for the BD mentioned them. Since there was questions before, I asked the shop when they changed out my cam and heads to confirm. They told me it did. Do not if they had some with and some without or changed in mid model or not, just know that mine did and it was original.
Have had no problems with the procedure of going to zero lash and backing off to slight drag and then 3 flats.
MARV
Well-Known Member
i hear you.
starting the adjustment with the tappet piston bottomed out by using pressure from the valve, i guess the term 'zero lash' isnt correct.
like J Sachs said, getting to the point where you can 'just spin the rod' means the valve spring pressure is off and your ready to adjust.
if i recall:
tappet piston travel = .20
hlt2 size = .10
1 full turn = .05 (center of travel?)
1/2 turn = .025 (solid lifter baby!)
wasnt long ago we traveled this road
http://www.bigdogbiker.com/forums/technical/8172-tappets.html
Not about being mad, it's about BDM having built your motor to their (EPA) specs not S&S so they really can't comment on what might be in your motor.
As I understand it now BDM uses complete motors from S&S again so now they probably can answer a question like this.
myanoch
Active Member
If you look at the cam profile top dead center has the valve still open slightly
It's got to be on the base circle there is alot of overlap in the cam If you adjust not on base circle or not leave lifter blead down their going to make noise
I found that if you raise front ehaust first to top of travel set rear exhaust and so on
It worked for me I went down four full turns after pushrod got loose( sometimes it takes 20 min to get them to bleed down
This sends the pushrod have way in the lifter travel
This is the way BIGDOG recomends in their manual
All the past post above all will work but none will if the lifter is not down on cam base or not blead down
and your bike did not make noise before you adjusted them did They???
It's got to be on the base circle there is alot of overlap in the cam If you adjust not on base circle or not leave lifter blead down their going to make noise
I found that if you raise front ehaust first to top of travel set rear exhaust and so on
It worked for me I went down four full turns after pushrod got loose( sometimes it takes 20 min to get them to bleed down
This sends the pushrod have way in the lifter travel
This is the way BIGDOG recomends in their manual
All the past post above all will work but none will if the lifter is not down on cam base or not blead down
and your bike did not make noise before you adjusted them did They???
Olde Man
Active Member
The math that applies to John's method of adjusting tappets with travel limiters should be as follows. Push rod threads are 32 threads per inch which means that 1 turn is equal to .03125". That means that 1/2 turn off of the bottom is about .015. That leaves about .085 left to allow for the thermal expansion of the motor and .015 before going solid will keep the lifter on the lobes at high rpm. I do not have limiters but I adjust mine off of the bottom because the valve spring will collapse the lifter quicker and more positively than the small spring in the lifter can return it to zero lash in a cold garage. The total number of turns to take up .200 is 6 full turns plus 2 1/2 flats. If you want to stay with the 4 turns down from zero lash you can do it by shorting the pushrod 2 full turns and 2 1/2 flats from the bottom instead.
Fibersnake
Banjo Playing PsychoBilly
Marv, Yes we did and going back and reading, I am almost as confused as before. Still I am pretty much going with what I understand is towards the HL2T method. Just making sure it is zero lash and after waiting, that there is still zero lash (thus not being able to turn with fingers), then back off to it has a slight drag and is able to turn by fingers, then normal about a 1/2 turn (3 flats) more.
About the only thing I need to check next time is how many turns I am going to get zero lash (maybe zero lash is not good term-say bottom out) from a cold sitting point. It doesn't seem like much, maybe 4 turns, but will check (I need to adjust them next oil change anyway).
Just like the old thread, I am now wondering if it does or does not have the Limiters or not, though I have been and continue to go with mine does.
Maybe they did change them out when they did the heads and cam, but I understood they were in there and understood he checked to make sure when they did that work.
Still have the Black Bush and Cohiba to share with you, regardless of the outcome.
About the only thing I need to check next time is how many turns I am going to get zero lash (maybe zero lash is not good term-say bottom out) from a cold sitting point. It doesn't seem like much, maybe 4 turns, but will check (I need to adjust them next oil change anyway).
Just like the old thread, I am now wondering if it does or does not have the Limiters or not, though I have been and continue to go with mine does.
Maybe they did change them out when they did the heads and cam, but I understood they were in there and understood he checked to make sure when they did that work.
Still have the Black Bush and Cohiba to share with you, regardless of the outcome.
Last edited:
MARV
Well-Known Member
TDC of the comp stroke both valves are closed.
otherwise no compression.
loaded up on the toro's from x-mas but i'm missing the Bush!
3little1big : yea your TPI sounds right. i didnt do the final math. :up:
Fibersnake
Banjo Playing PsychoBilly
Well let see what I can do, maybe the weather will be decent for next weekend or the one after and I will make a little road trip up your way. Or maybe Monday if it is not bad, are you working Monday?loaded up on the toro's from x-mas but i'm missing the Bush!
john sachs
Well-Known Member
Another "tidbit" to be aware of.......:2thumbs:
What I ALWAYS do,when starting to adjust valves is:
Get the cylinder on TDC compression that I'm going to do first.
NEVER,EVER,put the pushrods in the other cylinder,UNTIL the valves are set in the first cylinder,and engine turned over to tdc on the second cylinder....
Why ??
Because when turning the motor over,to get tdc on the second cylinder,if you have the pushrods and rockers on,you can squeeze some oil from the lifters,which may ruin your feel for the end of free play(you'll compress the lifter too easily by hand)which may result in a too tight,or bent valve.:angry:
John
What I ALWAYS do,when starting to adjust valves is:
Get the cylinder on TDC compression that I'm going to do first.
NEVER,EVER,put the pushrods in the other cylinder,UNTIL the valves are set in the first cylinder,and engine turned over to tdc on the second cylinder....
Why ??
Because when turning the motor over,to get tdc on the second cylinder,if you have the pushrods and rockers on,you can squeeze some oil from the lifters,which may ruin your feel for the end of free play(you'll compress the lifter too easily by hand)which may result in a too tight,or bent valve.:angry:
John