Hard to start 08 Mastiff

[Doogan]

I have heard about a new wire harness and control module for Big Dogs. Not sure if anyone has had this concern. I have to depress the Run Button and the Start Button about 10-20 times before the starter will crank. Sometimes once it starts both turn signals flash until I hold one of the flash buttons in. Has anyone replaced their wire harness and control unit, and were you having these types of concerns?

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

I have heard about a new wire harness and control module for Big Dogs. Not sure if anyone has had this concern. I have to depress the Run Button and the Start Button about 10-20 times before the starter will crank. Sometimes once it starts both turn signals flash until I hold one of the flash buttons in. Has anyone replaced their wire harness and control unit, and were you having these types of concerns?

Have battery load tested.
Test switches on handlebars

 

[Doogan]

Tested battery, and even put a charged set to crank on while tying. Nothing.
I’ve read about the EHC RIP and the PDM also, any experience?
sounds like the issue I’m having.

 

[nvcollins]

Before you replace anything, have Curtis run a test on your EHC. His business is wildsteedworx.com. I just sent my '08 Mastiff to be checked.

Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk

 

[Sven]

To me is says corrosion at touch points.
When I think of this bike, I aim looking right at the age of the electrolysis of wires and cables not being that much tampered with.

The work-thru goes something like this:
Starter motor ~ Not it.
Relay ~ Not it.
Wire harness ~ Not it.
Control Unit ~ Not it.
Key switch ~ Not it.
Battery ~ Not it.

10-20 times to me says, a buildup at a heat spot, push the said molecules to heat up at said [where is my temp gun?] touch point, and only then does the current flow at that moment; is at the button, or relay is the delay. Why? Because the jobbers all work, and that says who touched down the line? Those are the two jobbers [button/relay arms] I can think of. What did I miss?

As far as winkers coming on and hitting the turn signal to shut them off, see all wires on the harness are in play? No complaint about some light is off/not working. See the jobber list dwindle? Not the harness, the battery, the starter motor, the relay, the key fobbing your brain.

If you listen to turtle, you'd first do one thing at a time to learn who? I would start with only scrubbing new metal at the battery ground cable, and at the frame. Yes, that end. Unless you point out the white corrosion on the battery posts and cables. There too is a resistance flow stopped. That's now 'a good known clean loop back to ground.' No joy, then a sanding at the start button contact points. That, or take a test light to the wire side up to the start button on the relay and does it light up when you press the button.

I did not list the starter button contact points as the work-thru. It's an intermittent contact point. I did add the relay because they are usually bulletproof throughout its life and hardly fail. One thing at a time. Did the scrub change the start delay?

 

[Doogan]

I will be back on it tomorrow. I should be able to check ground and see if power is getting to starter easily. It doesn’t start most of the time. I’ll update tomorrow and thanks for the heads up about getting the ehc tested.

 

[Rottweiler]

How old is the battery? I would verify it first. Have it load tested. Rule it out.
Then check your LEDs on the EHC when you press the run button. You should get a light to come on when the run button is pressed. If not start with the easiest things. Disconnect the battery remove the EHC connector and clean the pins. While you have the connector apart you can use a multi meter. Fine the pin for the run switch it will go to ground when pressed. If it doesn't then your EHC is probably ok. Keep trouble shooting that circuit until you find the problem.

 

[Rottweiler]

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[Doogan]

Battery tested good. On light solid and one flashing with key on. additional light comes on when run button depressed. Not even a click. Don’t have an Allen small enough to unplug ehc, going to store to get one now. also found tape on the harness connector and written on it 058

 

[Doogan]

Ohm test ehc pins 28/6 and 27/6 not getting any continuity. Looks like 6 is ground circuit and 27 run, 28 start. I don’t have pins small enough to go into harness connector. Don’t want to spread pins in harness and then harness needs replacement in the backbone. The EHC has the vin written on it, so I am assuming,I’m it’s original. Feeling like I need to replace EHC. I ran a power test lead to the starter direct and it will crank the engine, but regardless of how many times the run button is depressed she won’t fire. Love the looks, the ride and the power, but after only 250 miles of riding, my ownership sucks. I’m sure the original owner had some clue of this.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

Ohm test ehc pins 28/6 and 27/6 not getting any continuity. Looks like 6 is ground circuit and 27 run, 28 start. I don’t have pins small enough to go into harness connector. Don’t want to spread pins in harness and then harness needs replacement in the backbone. The EHC has the vin written on it, so I am assuming,I’m it’s original. Feeling like I need to replace EHC. I ran a power test lead to the starter direct and it will crank the engine, but regardless of how many times the run button is depressed she won’t fire. Love the looks, the ride and the power, but after only 250 miles of riding, my ownership sucks. I’m sure the original owner had some clue of this.

Let's be clear here.
When the RUN button is pressed it momentarily grounds pin B27 on the EHC and the EHC changes state. The pin does not stay grounded nor does it maintain "continuity" between B27 and B6. This is the same for the Start B28 and the OFF B44
Get a needle/pin to use as a probe -- you can stick it thru the wire if need to -- if worried about that use liquid electrical tape afterwards to seal that small hole.
You first need to test the switches in the handle bars.

Use a thin striped wire and connect to Black and test Green (start) then Blue (off) then RED (run)
They should be open circuits until you press the switch
when the switch is pressed you should have consistent continuity, if while holding the switch it bounce, replace the switch, no continuity, replace switch.

These switches are not used like a switch in a house or the high school science class demo of electricity.
There battery connected to ground,
BULB one side connected to ground
Switch connected to PLUS
other side of switch connected to BULB

When switch was ON, light lit -- ie ciruit was complete.

In electronics age, it gets more complex

Battery is connect to ground
"BRAIN" (EHC) is connected to Ground and POWER
An input pin of BRAIN is connected to a Switch and it is watched by a program for a state change (OFF to ON)
When the state change happens, the brain reacts.
In the case of RUN/OFF it will make the BIKE OPERABLE or if OFF press DISABLE the SYSTEM effectively.
There only needs to be a DETECT state change on the RUN switch, it is not a RUNS as long as it is ON
Once the BRAIN is set to RUN, it then monitors the INPUT pin for START, sends power to ignition module.
When it detects the START pin goes LOW (to ground) it activates an OUTPUT pin that engages the starter etc.
This is a case where START pin does it's job as long as it is pressed (don't hold longer then 3 sec max EVER)

I hope this helps clarify why it always seems guys that only ever did house wiring or OLD school bikes get into trouble chasing them damn computerized machines!

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Ohm test ehc pins 28/6 and 27/6 not getting any continuity. Looks like 6 is ground circuit and 27 run, 28 start. I don’t have pins small enough to go into harness connector. Don’t want to spread pins in harness and then harness needs replacement in the backbone. The EHC has the vin written on it, so I am assuming,I’m it’s original. Feeling like I need to replace EHC. I ran a power test lead to the starter direct and it will crank the engine, but regardless of how many times the run button is depressed she won’t fire. Love the looks, the ride and the power, but after only 250 miles of riding, my ownership sucks. I’m sure the original owner had some clue of this.

Welcome from NJ,

Try testing the PCB.

 

[Doogan]

I appreciate it. I understand the momentary system, and how it does not stay in a functioning state. I do like his testing procedures, although if the lights fur run, and the function Of it cranking to start do not function, you do not know if it is a matter of the wiring or the EHC in this case. I will be testing it this weekend further and will pul the switches apart to test also.
with that being said, has anyone done any work with Wild Steed Worx modules? Reading all threads I can, and not sure which way I want to turn if EHC is bad.

 

[nvcollins]

Wild Steed Worx is currently testing the EHC from my '08 mastiff. I'll post on outcome.

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[Rottweiler]

If your wiring is ok and it ends up being a EHC problem, then yes the replacement one that WSW sells is very good.

 

[Doogan]

Mike! You Da Man. I took apart the switch and jumped out the harness and it cranks up and runs. It will fire up on and off when boot is over switch, but perfect on just the switch. Doesn’t work at all mounted on the bars. Gonna order new switches with boots. That you all for your walk through. Feel a lot better about the bike and the electronics.