front master cylinder

Energy One
04 Ridgeback front master brake cylinder piston- how tight should this be in there?
I had to use compressed air to blow it out and there's no way it will go back in, since the piston is nylon I don't understand why it won't slide back in the cylinder.
any thoughts here?
Is it possible these pistons can swell over time, I'm used to a piston just sliding up and down in the cylinder with very little effort.
 
The piston shouldn't be tight, only the o-ring.
I don't know of anyone having a swelled piston problem, yeah yeah yeah you filthy minded bastards.
Sounds like a rebuild kit is in order.
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
The piston shouldn't be tight, only the o-ring.
1. My piston moves in and then the oring stops it from sliding in the rest of the way.
2. My piston won't move at all as soon as I install the piston I am not close to the ring.
Which is it?

3. What does the inside of piston oring and groove look like as they both meet that groove with part of the oring stuck in there? White crusty stuff?
a. White crusty stuff is water mixed with oil. Not flushed enough every 2yrs say.
b. White crusty stuff expands and then when you hear the brake disc drag, the resistance is more a locking device as the oring is squeezed tighter around the OD of the master's bore/caliper's bore.
c. See why you have to remove the crap under the oring and clean the groove so the oring now can lay flat? If not, the piston slides thru a straight up oring; the piston does not return being the oring never wrinkled forward; the piston now stops where the pressure placed it; the brake pad now drags; the high spot in the disc pushed the pad back, but still drags on the straight running disc. This is this example of a dirty groove, adding the crust in between the inner quad-ring. The same drag in the master is that dirty groove too.

4. Are we taking about a quad-ring? This is how a quad-ring works.

|| --- This is the oil push but right now we are at zero pressure at the q-ring.
\\ <<< This is oil pressure and inside that quad ring is the piston moving.
|| >>> This is oil returning back to neutral as in no pressure. This is called, 'memory.' The quad is so thick it wrinkles in that // forward position and has the ability to square back into that || straight up position. However, the groove and ring have to be clean for that groove and that memory is the cause of that effect. This is how the piston is pulled away from the brake pad. This is how the brake pad is released off the disc. And this [memory] needs to fall back into a clean groove.

It can't with the white chemical reaction under the o-ring/quad-ring. The groove has to be spotless. The rubber material has to be spotless. Piston always moves thru the quad as the pad wears. See it move? Wrap your index and thumb around an empty toilet roll. Push the roll thru some. See your skin moves with the roll, but gives at the cylinder roll you let go: your skin memory lets it sit back in the static? It's that simple.

Quad + Crust + Filthy = No piston move.
 

Raywood

The Pirate
Staff member
Calendar Participant
Troop Supporter
I had the same issue with my bike. There was a burr in the clylinder so I careful filed it out till the piston dropped in cleanly. Pictures of doing it in my "Advanced Maintenance" thread in the How-To section.
 
Front master cylinder piston

Thanks for the responses, Sven- its number 2 the ported end of the piston will not go into the cylinder barrel.

The cylinder itself is immaculate not a mark or any foreign buildup of anything whatsoever.
I ended up wrapping/turning some 2500 grit wet/dry sandpaper around the ported end of the piston a few times and voila! it slides in slicker than...well, you get the idea....I've never seen this issue before.

Lined the cylinder with fresh Dot 5 put it all back together, bled the brakes (which takes a little time) and everything works great.

I have no idea how the piston seized in the cylinder though.
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the responses, Sven- its number 2 the ported end of the piston will not go into the cylinder barrel. The cylinder itself is immaculate not a mark or any foreign buildup of anything whatsoever.
Why do you think that bore looks the way it does? For super tight tolerances and sealing purposes.

I ended up wrapping/turning some 2500 grit wet/dry sandpaper around the ported end of the piston a few times and voila!
I think I may know why the piston was hard to set inside. Tight tolerance and it needs that certain X to Y lining up. You cocked it going in. That machined mirror finish was a no-no to remove.

1. Took the tolerance out of the bore = Cocks the piston.
2. Scratches the sealing ring's finish = Leaks past the seal.
3. Took the mirror finish out so = I forgot to mention this: when cleaning any brake bores, do not take the tolerance/finish off the surface.


:rolleyes: Signed,

If I told you not to take the finish out, would you have listened to the logic why you don't?

Monitor that leak behind the master/caliper

Live and learn :2thumbs:
 

Raywood

The Pirate
Staff member
Calendar Participant
Troop Supporter
All true, you should not have touched the bore. The burrs are usually from milling of the oil port holes at the base of the bore. That's what it was on mine and I was very careful to not touch the bore where you want a tight seal especially under pressure. I would keep an eye on it for leakage.
But glad you got it fixed.
 
master cylinder

Guys, I appreciate what you're saying but I never touched the cylinder, only the ported end of the piston.

I know exactly how piston actuators work and all sealing is done at the o-ring not at the ported end of the piston, tolerance there is irrelevant.

The mystery is how and why the piston got stuck/seized in the cylinder in the first place. Likely lack of constant use over time dried the cylinder wall out some.
 

Chrisnjax

Member
Does anyone know the bore size for the OEM front brake master cylinder ?? 2005 Pitbull
And possibly the thread size of the hydraulic line .. I am shopping for aftermarket hand controls
 
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