Dreaded starter bang

[BWG56]

When you try to put the bike into neutral you go from a gear into neutral so you would have the clutch pulled in so how could it be dragging? ? I don't understand what you mean.... I can get neutral right before stopping but once stopped it's all over.

I think what he means is, when sitting in first gear with the clutch pulled in, he can feel it dragging or wanting to move forward.
Spec calls for touching the throw out bearing and backing off 1/4 turn, I'm more at 1/16-1/8 turn back. But I'm running the 12 clutch disc with the soft pull ball n ramp which should have the 9 disc in it, its a little more touchy.

 

[heybaylor]

When you try to put the bike into neutral you go from a gear into neutral so you would have the clutch pulled in so how could it be dragging? ? I don't understand what you mean.... I can get neutral right before stopping but once stopped it's all over.

when rolling the bike does not need a clutch to shift gears, just needs a little slack in the drive train.
when stopped a slightly dragging clutch ( pressure and drive plates rubbing a little) will not allow any "slack"
then it takes more pressure to go from gear to gear ( move theshifter dogs)
the additional pressure results in bypassing the neutral detent on the shift drum..
that is why you cannot find neutral when you are completely stopped.

 

[BadDawg Bill]

when rolling the bike does not need a clutch to shift gears, just needs a little slack in the drive train.
when stopped a slightly dragging clutch ( pressure and drive plates rubbing a little) will not allow any "slack"
then it takes more pressure to go from gear to gear ( move theshifter dogs)
the additional pressure results in bypassing the neutral detent on the shift drum..
that is why you cannot find neutral when you are completely stopped.

That makes sense but both my clutches are adjusted just fine with no drag. With My RoadStar I can get neutral no matter what like clock work. Had the same issue with my Fatboy and custom built. I'd really like to find a solution.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

Well ....I just pulled my starter since I'm pulling my transmission this is my second starter this year only about 2.5K mikes on this rebuild...

Gear teeth are mangled and the case is cracked.

I'm guessing this is because of my starter ring gear. I'm replacing everything this time around, starter and the ring gear and I'll have to rebuild this already rebuilt starter haha.

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[heybaylor]

That makes sense but both my clutches are adjusted just fine with no drag. With My RoadStar I can get neutral no matter what like clock work. Had the same issue with my Fatboy and custom built. I'd really like to find a solution.

I'm no expert , but I think the main issue is the "short throw linkage" just a "little movement between 1st ,and 2nd.
my fatboy shifts just fine from 1st to n while stopped.

just checked , my sporty is approx. one inch of movement from pawl neutral to gear neutral
fatboy about 3/4 inch, Bigdog about 1/2 inch.
maybe change the shifter lever linkage connection a little closer to the shifter pivot
or a longer shift arm on the tranny ??
I will just live with it

 

[BWG56]

Ouch, I busted a starter also years ago and replaced it and still had the starter bang, I then replaced the starter ring and clutch basket at the same time and haven't had a problem since, My starter ring also looked like the one you had.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

Ouch, I busted a starter also years ago and replaced it and still had the starter bang, I then replaced the starter ring and clutch basket at the same time and haven't had a problem since, My starter ring also looked like the one you had.

Well this is #2 within a year first one case broke now this has case and starter gear broke.

I'm hoping third time is the charm along with the slightly used in great shape starter gear i got

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[badyellowvette]

Check your starter bolts to see if they are loose.

Will do, on the other hand I never have trouble finding neutral, stopped or running.

 

[BadDawg Bill]

I'm no expert , but I think the main issue is the "short throw linkage" just a "little movement between 1st ,and 2nd.
my fatboy shifts just fine from 1st to n while stopped.

just checked , my sporty is approx. one inch of movement from pawl neutral to gear neutral
fatboy about 3/4 inch, Bigdog about 1/2 inch.
maybe change the shifter lever linkage connection a little closer to the shifter pivot
or a longer shift arm on the tranny ??
I will just live with it

You might be on to something. that's what I was thinking too. Too tight and it might push it too hard and past neutral. I'll check it out.
Thanks...

 

[Th3InfamousI]

Were the starter mount bolts still tight.

One was a little loose. I'll have to keep y eye on it next time and check it periodically.

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[BWG56]

Mine were loose in the 07 when I tore it down to install the open primary and the housing was cracked. Sent the starter to Curtis for a rebuild and picked up another from Donna and installed. No banging since adding the op and keepingredients an eye on the bolts.I think thepose bolts were a big problem for the alignment

As an Engineer wannabe, the bolts have nothing to do with the alignment, the nose of the starter with the o-ring on is the major alignment and to keep it from twisting with the torque, the dowel pin above the rear lower bolt takes the torque off the bolts. The aluminum casting nose piece should be billet. However, cost vs reliability, choose your poison.
I added star washers to my bolts.

 

[BWG56]

you're out thinking me this morning Ker. when the bolts get loose they let the parts part some and they can't stay lined up without being tight. This is my theory and I'm sticking with it. once the starters start banging, they never stop until you replace the starter and the loose bolts.

And the starter ring gear if it gets chewed up, ax Eric. And I've been down this road, even after the 3rd starter it was banging

 

[Th3InfamousI]

And the starter ring gear if it gets chewed up, ax Eric. And I've been down this road, even after the 3rd starter it was banging

Seems to be alot of banging going on here ...

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[BWG56]

Seems to be alot of banging going on here ...

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Good thing we ain't talkin about tank bungs also

 

[Th3InfamousI]

Good thing we ain't talkin about tank bungs also

Bungs, banging and your dirty hole

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[BWG56]

 

[badyellowvette]

Will do, on the other hand I never have trouble finding neutral, stopped or running.

I did check my starter bolts and got a quarter turn out of them. I have to check the torque on them. Don't think they were that loose to cause the bang. Never happened today though.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

you're out thinking me this morning Ker. when the bolts get loose they let the parts part some and they can't stay lined up without being tight. This is my theory and I'm sticking with it. once the starters start banging, they never stop until you replace the starter and the loose bolts.

Since I just went through this today I noticed the torque spec is antiseize and 20ftlbs...that's nothing. I actually put blue on it at 20, I'm not sure why the starter wouldn't call for loctite I see no good reason. I was just following the manual before but obviously that's not working out well so loctite it is.

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[Olde Man]

Well it finally happened. The starter housing cracked. I am trying to figure if it is the chicken or the egg thing. Here is the sequence of events leading up to the failure.
1)I installed a slam switch and after that I had this scenario of the starter sol would pull in and nothing would happen for about a second and a half and then it would turn over and start.
2) I replaced the battery with one that everybody liked and the problem did not go away and then started the bang that I talked about when I started this thread.
3) I let it bang every once and a while and continue to do the grunt and then start thing and then removed the starter and replaced the bearing on the output end of the motor and checked the wear on the clutch basket teeth. They had some wear but not alarming.
4) Seems like the occasional bang was louder and one time the starter stayed engaged even with the key off. I attributed this to a mechanical misalignment of the starters output gear. The sol did not want to pull in after that. After about tan tries it started.
5) I removed the starter and found the case cracked by one of the #10-24 Socket head cap screws that mate the sol to the starter, Not in the starter to primary case bolts.
6) I had removed and disassembled the starter before and thought that I had possible tightened the #10-24 to tight and stressed the pot metal causing the case to crack.
I have found a way to reinforce this area on the starter to prevent the breaking problem but I do not feel that it is the root problem.
7) I do not think it is the compression releases because it does not even start to turn over.
8) I have a wire plus system and I haven't read the voltage drop across the sor relay. I will do that when I put it back together.
9) I noticed that the wear pattern on the clutch basket teeth are only showing partial engagement, about 50%. It might be that the wear is preventing the sol from coming all the way in and there for making a poor connection momentarily to the starter motor causing the 1 to 1 1/2 sec grunt in starting.
10) Is it a hardness problem with the clutch basket teeth and something that we inherited?
11) Has anyone looked at the amount of engagement of their starter gear while starting with the primary cover off.
12) This is not going away. If it is a baker problem did they fix it or do we have to go the Bandit basket method?
I appreciate the replys by Th3infamous, BWG56, pknowles, Badyellowvette, BadDawg Bill and others.
BTW I have about 29,000 mi on the 06 K9.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

Well it finally happened. The starter housing cracked. I am trying to figure if it is the chicken or the egg thing. Here is the sequence of events leading up to the failure.
1)I installed a slam switch and after that I had this scenario of the starter sol would pull in and nothing would happen for about a second and a half and then it would turn over and start.
2) I replaced the battery with one that everybody liked and the problem did not go away and then started the bang that I talked about when I started this thread.
3) I let it bang every once and a while and continue to do the grunt and then start thing and then removed the starter and replaced the bearing on the output end of the motor and checked the wear on the clutch basket teeth. They had some wear but not alarming.
4) Seems like the occasional bang was louder and one time the starter stayed engaged even with the key off. I attributed this to a mechanical misalignment of the starters output gear. The sol did not want to pull in after that. After about tan tries it started.
5) I removed the starter and found the case cracked by one of the #10-24 Socket head cap screws that mate the sol to the starter, Not in the starter to primary case bolts.
6) I had removed and disassembled the starter before and thought that I had possible tightened the #10-24 to tight and stressed the pot metal causing the case to crack.
I have found a way to reinforce this area on the starter to prevent the breaking problem but I do not feel that it is the root problem.
7) I do not think it is the compression releases because it does not even start to turn over.
8) I have a wire plus system and I haven't read the voltage drop across the sor relay. I will do that when I put it back together.
9) I noticed that the wear pattern on the clutch basket teeth are only showing partial engagement, about 50%. It might be that the wear is preventing the sol from coming all the way in and there for making a poor connection momentarily to the starter motor causing the 1 to 1 1/2 sec grunt in starting.
10) Is it a hardness problem with the clutch basket teeth and something that we inherited?
11) Has anyone looked at the amount of engagement of their starter gear while starting with the primary cover off.
12) This is not going away. If it is a baker problem did they fix it or do we have to go the Bandit basket method?
I appreciate the replys by Th3infamous, BWG56, pknowles, Badyellowvette, BadDawg Bill and others.
BTW I have about 29,000 mi on the 06 K9.

I cracked two housings and even the nose. The force in these things is unbelievable something has to give and most often it's the housing which cracks.

I've also had cracked teeth on the starter gear itself which obviously will hang up on the ring gear on the basket.

After I cracked two of them I replaced the starter ring gear on the clutch basket and a new starter gear on the motor. How does the starter gear look?

My opinion is the bang is due to the starter gear when its trying to disengage and it get it's hung up on the gear. As mine always happened at the end of the cycle and most times the bike was running.

If I were you I would just remove the slam button, they cause more problems then they are worth and I had an adjustable one from spyke and going down the road the nut backed off and the damn starter just kept spinning! That was fun as I was at a red light. I shut the bike off and it's STILL spinning! I've never actually needed a slam button and if you lost your hand control start you can always jump the solenoid wire a little wire.



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