CVT self tuner for EFI bikes

08mastiff

Active Member
Was looking at this for a couple of months now and was wondering what the EFI guys thought about it. It is advertised as a self tuner that automatically adjusts fuel mixture to your current riding conditions and analyzes up to 80 times per second eliminating the need for downloading mapping. It advertises that you can make any modification (ie, exhaust, intake, cam, etc.) and it supposedly adjusts the fuel/air mixture on its own. Sounds better than buying the programmable ECM from S&S.

www.cobrausa.com - Fi2000 Home Page
 

RCAdd1ct

JAFO
For that much I would look at the t-max efi....

It is a more mature product with no need to tune the stock ECM and a piggyback controller.
 

09bdmastiff

New Member
any more info on this? I know i had this on my suzuki when i put air intakes and pipes and it was plug and play and the bike ran great.
 

Jwooky

Well-Known Member
I don't believe in this kind of technology. This function is built into the S&S controller. You do not want/need to have two controllers managing the same functions.

Call S&S and discuss. They are very helpful. The worked me through some very complicated issues which ended up being WIre Plus issues.
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
I don't believe in this kind of technology.
OXYGEN SENSORS

Look at the wave forms.

Instead, CVT operates continuously, detecting throttle movement that indicates significant acceleration, and there is a threshold below which it switches to one of two other modes. If the bike has an exhaust oxygen sensor, this data typically controls the mixture in steady cruise or during slow roll-ons, and the PowrPro system adjusts this to 14.2-to-1 air/fuel ratio, giving maximum-power operation.

Quote taken from the cobra tech section. Basically it says;
I am going to take a guess at this so my warning banner is out, I could be wrong reading that cobra tech page. Because the way they explained that shit is super vague. So as I made an attempt to collect the data these companies speak about, I took it upon myself to play; reversengineering at the throttle bodies. It more explains what I can't. But I sure found more than I bargained for. So basically in a technical way, I think it has to work in a mathematical absolute [electrical law environment], where formula follows formula, meaning, for it all to work.

It says; I am a math count. I can formulate a jobber [cobra/02 sensor] to be preset to [cobra's 14.2:1 ratio] or take an 02 sensor and preset this to the stoic [14.7:1] AFR. The cobra is going to be like an electronic 02 sensor; electronically. I am going to sample rate 80 times during the 720° degree phase. That means, did the next cylinder increase load or lift? So, I watch squidly increase an increment, or back off the wrist band is more like moving up and down the power band.

As I sample rate out of the gate; your lift on shift; your wide open throttle; your slowing down; your stopping; I am going to use the intake air pressure sensor-math the electrics-against the rpm. I have my two numbers at all times. I now can preset this frequency to this output number.

It says; I creep up to the harley at a light and time the light. I am pulling over, over and over; to time some frequencies in open loop and at closed loop. WATT you hear [in my video] is a pop out the pipe, and then thru the same section again, no pop. Even the engine note changes tone. It is more like, you open year mouth no matter your age [thinking you do not believe the absolute [radio wave] form??? Well sir, the space age is going to tell you differently.

All I am stating is that you think you are going fast, but honey, you should ride the bike I'm on. I wire a fire and all things change you, 'witheye don't believe.' Well, I am asking you if we have the same bike, you roll in thinking you have the cobra move on your bike. I on the other hand exploit the, 'don't believers,' ass you keep watching how home he is going to send you into a wall you don't listen to turtle speak the speak you are down 2mph thinking you had some extra HP.

It says, :hi: and bye the fuck were you thinking? :confused: I took body pain to reach for a wire to fire. It means this shit is the real deal you square wave! Get used to the elixirs coming your way. :lol: So, Jwooky, yes I am in agreement with you on the digital move, but it is still a move none the less. Get it? :confused:


Presetting is so upsetting, ain't it? [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwrjIiht1VY]3 WATT Ways - YouTube[/ame]

NOLTT :roll: :whoop:
 

BigDogBro1

Made in the USA
The S&S/BDM EFI ECM module is already a self learning unit for minor changes.

The factory unit is locked so you can't manually modifiy it via new maps when making substantial modifications.

You can BUY AN UNLOCKED VERSION of the same ECM from S&S that will replace the factory locked unit. $400.00

BDM locked the units to get a better engine warranty from S&S and EPA approval. So I've heard.
 
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RoadRider

Active Member
I am currently using the FI2000 on my Road King. The motor is mildly jacked up and the FI2000 is working very well. In talking with Cobra and my experiences I would probibly not use it on my Big Dog or on a motor that has had extensive work done on it. I have installed them on customers stock or slightly built motors and and have had very good results.
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
The S&S/BDM EFI ECM module is already a self learning unit for minor changes.
I believe that is correct. Correct in a way that it learns for so many minutes is to keep a saved [Random Access Memory] count going; This learn process is to save and dump data until it math'd back into compliance of the preset example; [14.2:1 AFR].

So in a technical way, it is set at ROM [Read Only Memory] in the black box. That says I turn the key on, I follow this [new] parameter: You put me in a crate, ship me to some cold mountain, I am going to read the RAM coming in from said sensor(s). I am going to count so many times for so many minutes so the constant remains a constant; "eventually learned."

Said in another way, the sensor has a [new] air pressure at this number; we turn the key on @ mountain altitude. It says it will learn the mountain pressure vacuums/temps/baro variables and refigure as per.

The sensors work in 10ths of volts. So what happens is the cobra runs the same theory using the .01 to .09v switching. You richen the throttle apply, it cuts back to lean on that slow sample rate. It cuts back to rich on a sample rate is the lift. I mean, the process is so fast, and so slow at the same time (80 count), we are talking milliseconds of time, times rpm.

Does this many a little bit of sense how that puppy functions?
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
Okay then, lets talk computer speak basics:

Analog = Many. Think of a wall switch that dims the lights. That shows many shades of shadow in the room, correct?

Digital = Single. Think of a computer built with may diodes and resistors. A resistor has one ohm resistance reading. So if we built a computer tower, all it is are single components with a resistance. And it moves like a wall switch. Either it is on or off. Either it is in 0 position or in 1 position. If you turn the key on, we can say that 0 was off, 1 is on. We can also say, since the next sequence could be 0 again, we can say it is back to analog we hit the starter button. So, did the abstract walk like; 10101010 in a way? If you cannot grasp this concept, I don't know how to get you there? The rest walks as it talks.

Analog = The sequence speaks in 1's and 0's; The math speaks the absolute; For every action/equals; X is an angle/Y is the other angle = Z Shadow Knows; it licks at the wall. You machine a part only in 2 directions, right? That is your 3-dimentional part. X times Y = Z could be said in math too, agreed?
__________________________________________________________________

Input = A frequency is sent into the black box. The rheostathrottle angle call it.

ECU = The black box is nothing more than transferring the opposite and equal frequency signal [back out] so the analog can read it, meaning, that frequency made a spark at this degree, and an injector pulse at this degree. Somewhere in that 360 is the X number. Crank speed is the Y number. Z is the timed delivery. This is sent out and equals input.

Output = Watt goes in, must come out in equal frequencies. This is how electricity communicates between sensors/harness/ECU.

____________________________________________________

Random Access Memory (RAM) = Electricity builds or flows different frequency waves. Some look like saw blades, others look like a U wave. Either way, the wave has to start from 0 and build up to that ocean peak wave, then descends back to 0 again. So if we use a square wave, we can see how long that length is? Did you snap the throttle open or did you slowly build up speed? This random wave can be set as if you stopped the rpm, read that frequency wave or number. It can be broken down via speed and clock timing. However, there are many frequency waves that some jobbers create. Again, for this wave out of a sensor it is a square wave. So once at speed it is now that constant number. It's the ramp up the wave or the linear move that keeps feeding fuel and advance curve. Then, full advance is pretty much locked past 2,000 rpm say. You might say, the [rpm] frequency moves the advance curve. Every number coming in past 2,000 is one number now. The demand of the throttle opening equals that of the fuel delivery, i.e.; rpm being equal or linear between the two.

Read Only Memory (ROM) = Once that frequency is sent in, the ECU begins a math process. There are 2 numbers for formula, right? So if we took that throttle position and set the throttle wide open and kept it there, that would send in one constant number. The computer is using that number times rpm speed. Being the throttle is at WOT, so is the [intake pressure sensor] at full vacuum. Those numbers turn out to be sent in as one number as well. See all those different input numbers? The atmospheric pressure is also fixed at one number, because we have yet to change elevation. Make sense so far?

So this lookup table or 'map' is more like a 3-dimentional rubik's cube call it. If you think about using one color, you can continue to set a path so each time it is ready to fire, it is running down all the yellows from one corner out to the next corner. That's the frequency sent in that popped up the yellow path. The concept continues; If you now set a wire at the one corner, as well as to the other corner, you could watch that cube become the ECU. In other words, we can see a millisecond move of the cubes 'lookup' a table via frequency. Therefore, the switching of X cubes [or map cells] in one direction, the Y cubes in the other so it all equals in/outputs. WATT happens if blue is connected to each end of those wires; out their corners like a sensor. We could show you closing the throttle. That number is now calculated; so as to bring the engine back to idle are all the blue cubes. Say that change in frequency of the closed throttle is that single number at the closed position, the light load at the intake sensor, and so on.

That rubik's cube is more what the ECU does inside. It looks up a table for lift. It looks up a table for WOT. It has many tables for different functions like altitude, air, and water temp for example. Hundreds of maps, or tables that are set in a ROM [preset] it follows. Even the limp mode uses one number to calc off rpm. It can only follow this written map [or the calc] of the complex math it takes to make it all happen. It runs in the absolute if you accept the concept that 2 + 2 = 4; 1 times itself is still 1.
_____________________________________________________

00 = Analog input is the TPS
01 = Digital is going to equal the demand is the math calc
00 = Analog is the output demand to the injector
01 = Digital is a pig of resistors which captured the analog out the ECU
00 = Analog input recycles or flows back into the piggy
01 = Pig sends the remath'd number it follows in ROM
00 = Is the wire output to the [new] injector duty cycle/frequency
01 = The pig has captured the analog and learns input to send 14.2 O/P
00 = In goes the analog and the cycle repeats until 14.2:1 is the O2 mimic machine. :2thumbs:

Did this sort of squeeze out a few steps to get you closer to that bike's bowel movements I shit out some sequential moves the ECU makes?; and now install the piggy? Watch the 1's and 0's step out a pattern you can even show it 1 and 0? :D

Make any sense or sounds sort of practical in a way? This is how I reversed the engineering; so I can diagnose my way out of a paper bag if both ends were open. :zwhistle:

________________________________________________________
 

Jwooky

Well-Known Member
WOW.....what a bunch of gibberish.

BigDogBro1 is correct.

The OEM module is self learning. It will cover most mods. The would EPA would only allow the parameters to vary within about 25% (from memory). So for example the injector pulse can only increase or decrease by ~25%.

It absolutely will save to memory, not just RAM. You can purchase an open module from S&S, I have one but not necessary unless you plan on doing some major recal and dyno tuning.
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
You can BUY AN UNLOCKED VERSION of the same ECM from S&S that will replace the factory locked unit. $400.00

LOL

Get S$S to cough up the locked goods and I'll match the unlockers, and a 1 and an 0. :hi:


:roll: It's right dare and you don't see it???? :moped::zwhistle:


Someone take the bet I can hack that puppy, we party on the $400. :zdrool:
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
WOW.....what a bunch of gibberish.

BigDogBro1 is correct.

Well, that's what I'm saying.

1. Does this sound like basic 10101 walk or not?
2. Does this sound like basic frequency, meaning, injector pulse?
3. Does this sound like basic linear ignition curve?
4. Dose disound like some runner upper to you?
5. Plus your minus frequency 25%?
6. Air tool the fool who frequent seas my videos is you and your tuning piggies don't she it yet is my guess. :D
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
The S&S/BDM EFI ECM module is already a self learning unit for minor changes.
BDM locked the units to get a better engine warranty from S&S and EPA approval. So I've heard.
I don't believe in this kind of technology.

B1: So I've heard BDM locked the units to get a better engine warranty anshit
JO: I have no clue abouthelectricsays

B1: WATThe fuck. Where is this guy going withishit
JO: WOThe fuck do I care when you don't believe in magic

B1: Eye for One and 1 for all is said and done we shorthelectrickshittya guess
JO: Oh blow my fuse. I can suck it fast and suck it slow don't chew knowatt

B1: KnoWOT? Shut the valve and WOThell is in the cylinder chamber's number
JO: Wait a minute. I told you I don't believe in thishit with the intake was 1

B1: 0 sets the penultimate number so I've heard but we are talking the absolute
JO: 1 can only guess WATT or WOT that number is because I don't believe

B1: The turtle talk just said there was only one number and you and me are
JO: WOT Runner Uppers? You mean we 'so I've heard and I don't believe...

... Have just been called out. For $400, Alex, WOT is the penultimate number if 1 fails and 0 takes over The Constant?
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
WOW.....what a bunch of gibberish.
I ask you runner upper types that go all tuning piggies anshit to name what you are dealing with? It runs in the absolute and that is all she wrote. I left you with the constant so you have a tuning base.

Want me to name the, "penultimate number constant?"

14.7 = Atmospheric pressure - Agree or bring in another numberunner upper.
14.7 = The intake's valve closing inside that cylinder - Has yet to change.
14.7 = Expands by heat - Has yet to be created.
14.7 = Contracts back - AS IF you could destroy it.
14.7 = WATT is the number NoWoW0T jubberish.
14.7 = WOT remained constant no matter the rpm.
14.7 = Your sadass pig dies, the sensor dies, every last input fails but one.
14.7 = WOT number is used no matter WATT position the throttle is in?
14.7 = 760mmHg is so in your face [constant] you don't see it if I brainwashed your wave hose.


Bottom line, you take whatever it takes to make the bike scream power. You handcuffed it with a preset piggy? That unit you speak, OP, is a handhold tool. Yes, you'll feel so much power and so much smooth. WATT happens if your bike outperforms with a different AFR number? A preset 14.2:1 AFR with the handhold setting, here lets cross the street?

It says you handcuffed the bike's potential with all the parts you though should work. Plug the pig in and she's too fat, too buzzy, too lagging, fuel hog, ran better stock goes the frustration.

Tuning is an art you get it right with all the jobbers working. It narrows down to one number to tune off of. Good luck getting it right with the right piggy. :up:
 

09bdmastiff

New Member
I understand how the cobra fi2000 works. I think I understand how the Big dog ecm works. All I know is that my bike is backfiring after I get on it. It needs to be tuned.
In my opinion the factory Ecm can't learn or tune or learn itself to prevent you from being lean or rich.

Question does anyone have a cobra fi2000 power pro on their Big Dog.

Just sent an Email to Cobra to see if they make one for the Big Dog.
 

RoadRider

Active Member
Cobra does not have a base line map for the Big Dog to the best of my knowledge so they would not have a unit for you.. There are a number of others out there that may work. Check out Vance and Hines they may have one.
 
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