Compression Release , Starter ?

[Chong]

Cranking problems,

2004 Bulldog, stock as far as I know. 7000 miles.

Slow to crank, would start. Jumped and cranked alot better. Now cranks slow or not at all with new battery and a jump , will not start.

History,
Slow cranking, when jumped cranked good
Always first compression hit it struggled, but with jump it cranked real good after the initial slow crank. Was sluggish and would not always start with out jump.

Replaced battery with Deka (310 CCA). which was in it prior. Started OK, still a little slow for a day. Now won't crank fast enough to start and struggles to get more then 3 compression events. With jump also. Jumping of a car battery sitting on the floor

I tested Deka after cranking it was at 12.36v,
Left on battery tender over night full charged light was on in the AM. Failed to check voltage before start attempt. Car battery tested 12.8 last night and charged it over night also. Again failed to test it before today's start attemp.

Both batteries back on charger and I will check voltage when charger indicate full charge but I dont expect results to change after topping charge off again .

In the mean time I am going to check starter and main ground connection both ends. Battery connections not to suspect, it's been out a couple times.

Suggestion ?

Thanks.

 

[Jwooky]

That battery should spin it over nicely, even at 12.3, but it should have been 12.8 to start.

You could load test the battery to be sure it’s ok.

If you put your finger on the compression releases you can feel them actuate. Check those also.

if all that checks out, I would have the starter checked.

 

[Chong]

Thanks,

I recharged the take off battery (same Deka 310CCA). Either battery new or take off seem to be the same results,

I will try to find the compession releases, this can be done with top covers on ?

 

[Jwooky]

Yes, assuming you have them. Some early bikes did not.

You can press them manually through the silicon boot to feel how they work.

 

[Chong]

Okay,

It does have rubber boots in covers.

Thanks

 

[chubs]

How are the contacts in the starter solenoid ? They could be pitted up and not making solid connection ?

 

[Chong]

I will check that too.

Thanks.

 

[chubs]

I will check that too.

Thanks.

Be careful if ya pull the "disc" piece out!!!
If the battery is still hooked up, and you let that spring bump the battery side contact in the solenoid, you'll likely end up buying a new spring. Guess how I know!

 

[Sven]

1) With car jumper wires, a well charged battery with anything above 12.6v, I am going to ground the starter motor to the engine. This overrides if not adds a phantom ground and if still slow to start = Rebuild/replace starter motor.

2) With car jumper wires, I'm going to bench test the starter by simply grounding the one cable to the starter and engine, then clamp the starter stud with the jumper, then use a sacrificial cable off the battery's ground, so I am away from any gas at the battery-still seeping from a charge, and I do not melt the post of the battery with the arc of the spark. If the bench equals the above [remote ground made] we are back to = Replace/rebuild starter motor.

And do I want compression in the loop or plugs out?
Plugs in ~ is chasing the ground integrity of the loop.
Plugs out ~ as if I was bench testing remotely.

 

[Mickmorris]

That battery should spin it over nicely, even at 12.3, but it should have been 12.8 to start.

You could load test the battery to be sure it’s ok.

If you put your finger on the compression releases you can feel them actuate. Check those also.

if all that checks out, I would have the starter checked.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Cranking problems,

2004 Bulldog, stock as far as I know. 7000 miles.

Slow to crank, would start. Jumped and cranked alot better. Now cranks slow or not at all with new battery and a jump , will not start.

History,
Slow cranking, when jumped cranked good
Always first compression hit it struggled, but with jump it cranked real good after the initial slow crank. Was sluggish and would not always start with out jump.

Replaced battery with Deka (310 CCA). which was in it prior. Started OK, still a little slow for a day. Now won't crank fast enough to start and struggles to get more then 3 compression events. With jump also. Jumping of a car battery sitting on the floor

I tested Deka after cranking it was at 12.36v,
Left on battery tender over night full charged light was on in the AM. Failed to check voltage before start attempt. Car battery tested 12.8 last night and charged it over night also. Again failed to test it before today's start attemp.

Both batteries back on charger and I will check voltage when charger indicate full charge but I dont expect results to change after topping charge off again .

In the mean time I am going to check starter and main ground connection both ends. Battery connections not to suspect, it's been out a couple times.

Suggestion ?

Thanks.

Follow starting system diagnostic in this file.

 

[rpols7]

Be very careful jumping it. Many EHC's fried that way. Good new is probably the compression releases not opening. Try taking the spark plugs out and see if it cranks normal. Put the plug in the wires while doing this as to not damage the coil. If it cranks normal then its a problem with the CR. Could be bad , no power to it, etc. Do the no plug test first.

 

[Chong]

Couple questions.

FWIW, Pulled plugs and have spark. Turns over better.

Starter is popping out of drive frequently, drive gear etc. look good.


Compression Release,

I can feel the front one functioning, moving anyhow.

Rear not so much, does pressing it down manually open it ? Has turned over better while pressing usually. Should it be replaced?


Starter

Selonoid ring pitted, see photos.

Is this enough to cause my problem, or should I replace starter. Not to thrilled about pulling it twice

Thanks.

 

[Chong]

See above ^^^^,

If I replace starter planning on getting it from Donna.

Trying to make Daytona.

Thanks again.

 

[Mickmorris]

Definitely sounds like CR issue. Replace that 1st. See what changes. If that isn’t working correctly it will kill your battery quick. Can’t hurt to have a starter on standby/ backup though if you already got one coming from Donna.

 

[rpols7]

You can probably clean that ring in the solenoid. Sounds like the rear CR is a problem, might be worth a try to make a small slit in the rubber cover and WD40 or PB blaster a few squirts and work it in. You have nothing to lose. If that doesn't correct it you should replace both. And to answer your question if you press it down it does open the CR.

 

[john sachs]

Could be a compression ratio issue, or even ignition timing. Pull a plug out of 1 cylinder, and see what difference that makes.
John

 

[Jwooky]

Yes holding the CR down will open it. Worse case you can run it manually. May help free it up too. They get carbon build up on them.

 

[Chong]

Yeah,

Plugs were black, which I have replaced.

Polished selonoid ring and contacts, cut small slit in rear compression release cover. And have been hitting it with WD 40 and pushing it.

Putting back together, see what happens this AM.

Bought it in December, put 60 miles on it. Was slow starting. So I figured weak battery since topping of battery or jump would get it started if needed.

That kinda snowballed when I put new battery in last week. I am guessing starter begun giving up due to compressin release.

So what I thought was a few minutes has turned into this .

 

[Chong]

So .. have a starter coming 2nd day.

Still cranking slow. 13.15 v. prior to crank.

Front compression release I can feel functioning .

Rear CR I can manually push down, don't feel any response when cranking. The WD-40 I have been putting on is showing up on the plug.

The old Deka batt charges up better then the new ? 12 .6 overnight new ( showed full charge on charger ) , 13.15 old charged for about 3 hrs . Using batt tender to charge.

Just cranking very slow with plugs in. Even with rear CR manually pressed.

Don't have time to sort out and source compression release and tool and make Daytona. Map Q says 17 hr drive .

I will remove remove rear cover and inspect wiring on CR.

So I am rolling the dice a new starter will get me on the road and thru Daytona.