Clutch Rework

[BigDogBro1]

Rebuilding the clutch on one of the 2007 Bulldogs.

It is the soft-pull 9 plate clutch pack with the Soft Pull ball ramps.

Are there any other different parts between the 9-plate and 12-plate systems other the the number of plates in the pack and the long sloped ball ramps?

Are the stock 12-plate disc/plates a different thickness?

is the pressure plate the same for both?

Does a friction disc run directly against the aluminum pressure plate face or is there a steel disc against the pressure plate?

 

[C.A. Jones]

The parts are all the same, including the pressure plate. The difference is the thickness of the steel plates. You'll be happiest with the 9 plate setup, and the ball & ramp set up for a 12 plate. Call us crazy, but we do it all the time, and our customers love us for it. (More throw) You will end up with a friction disc directly against the pressure plate. Any questions, fell free to give us a call.
C.A.Jones V-Twin | Custom Builds, Parts & Service

 

[BigDogBro1]

Thanks!

I would think you would want a steel plate against the aluminum pressure plate face to eliminate aluminum wear on the pressure plate. But, how knows why it's designed this way.

When the clutch pressure plate face wears down enough the clutch compression force reduces and the clutch begins to slip. Even with a new clutch pack. That's why fresh oil after 200 miles looks gray. (If the clutch slips) A very poor design.

We will be running the 9-plate clutch pack with soft pull ramps and using the stronger clutch diaphram spring (without the diaphram spring seat) with the new version clutch pressure plate which is black hardcoat (corrected) anodized.

The hardened clutch hub nut and flat washer (black?). 8/12/14...NOW Baker tells me the hardened nut is NOT BLACK but a case hardened GRAY multicolor and the BLACK is just a regular nut that is BLACK OXIDE COATED.

I'm loosing my trust in Baker Drivetrain.

 

[BWG56]

Here is a pic of the newer pressure plate that is hard coated not black anodize. I just had a problem myself last week with the throw out bearing retaining ring. I am running the 12 disc with the SP and it works great.

 

[BigDogBro1]

Have you noticed any pressure plate face wear into the aluminum on the hardcoat?

Thanks, The hardcoating is the important part.

 

[BWG56]

No wear, but I only have about 2K miles on it

 

[C.A. Jones]

We agree in regards there should be a steel against the pressure plate, but that's the way it's designed. I suspect that's why the primary fluid looks so dirty after just a few miles on the Baker setup, vs H-D or most other setups.
C.A.Jones V-Twin | Custom Builds, Parts & Service

 

[BigDogBro1]

Baker Drivetrain....

Why don't you design a thin plate that can get sandwiched in between the center pulley stack that can mechanically lock down that damn clutch hub nut from backing off. Safety wire or something!

 

[BWG56]

PUt a spline on the ID of the inner hub and make a thick washer to match the spline with a hex hole the size of the nut, you could just rotate until it matches the hex nut. Pressure plate would trap it in there

 

[BigDogBro1]

UPDATE:

The clutch assembly is correctly installed, NO trans shaft movement or loose nut, NEW style pressure plate w/o diaphram spring washer. New throwout bearing and 9-plate clutch pack.

Well it seems the recommendation from Baker to run the stronger clutch diaphram spring is causing two problems.

First of which is the clutch adjustment is wacked. In order to get the clutch to disengage when pulling in the clutch lever I had to over-adjust the push rod. Meaning, once the push rod kisses the throwout bearing it needs to be screwed an additional 3/4 turn inward. Then take the slack out of the cable. This puts unwanted load on the throwout bearing.

Normally when adjusting, the push rod kisses the throwout bearing then you back it out a 1/4 turn.

Second, the clutch actuation cover on the RH side is flexing outward when pulling in the clutch lever. I was very concerned the actuator casting would eventualy blow out due to the high stress.

This heavy duty diaphram spring is just too high of pressure for this BDM/Baker Drivetrain clutch system.

We are replacing the stronger diaphram spring with a NEW stock one and will be trying it again.

 

[BigDogBro1]

"Well it seems the recommendation from Baker to run the stronger clutch diaphram spring is causing two problems."

UPDATE:

Last night I replaced the (Baker recommended) HEAVY DUTY clutch diaphram spring with a NEW stock one, readjusted everything, went for a quick test ride and all is well...so far.

Don't use Baker's HD clutch diaphram spring in this clutch system, it's not designed to handle it regardless of what they say.

And NO...Baker wouldn't compensate us for the HD spring return shipping cost nor send out a replacement quart of primary oil with the stock spring.

It took two months and four phone calls to get a refund on the returned (recommended) heavy duty spring from Baker as well.

Next time I see Bert I'll let him know about it.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

UPDATE:

The clutch assembly is correctly installed, NO trans shaft movement or loose nut, NEW style pressure plate w/o diaphram spring washer. New throwout bearing and 9-plate clutch pack.

Well it seems the recommendation from Baker to run the stronger clutch diaphram spring is causing two problems.

First of which is the clutch adjustment is wacked. In order to get the clutch to disengage when pulling in the clutch lever I had to over-adjust the push rod. Meaning, once the push rod kisses the throwout bearing it needs to be screwed an additional 3/4 turn inward. Then take the slack out of the cable. This puts unwanted load on the throwout bearing.

Normally when adjusting, the push rod kisses the throwout bearing then you back it out a 1/4 turn.

Second, the clutch actuation cover on the RH side is flexing outward when pulling in the clutch lever. I was very concerned the actuator casting would eventualy blow out due to the high stress.



This heavy duty diaphram spring is just too high of pressure for this BDM/Baker Drivetrain clutch system.

We are replacing the stronger diaphram spring with a NEW stock one and will be trying it again.

Figured I would dig up this old post - I needed it for reference:
I'm putting mine in now and just came upstairs to check the forum. As i suspected the diaphragm spring washer is no longer needed the new hardened plate doesn't have as large a lip.

If anyone out there hasn't done the upgrade for the clutch plate it is highly recommended. And as it was found just stick with the stock diaphragm spring. Without the hardened one it wears the clutch plate and the friction plates unnecessarily and will cause premature slippage and give you a hell of a time trying to adjust the clutch.

The pictures below show mine. the hardened is grayish color and the stock one is just aluminium you can see all the ridges in it and the friction plate wear this is with only about 6k miles on the bike. It is an EASY SWAP. I just wish I had a bought a new throwout bearing...I'll have to order one for the next oil change and swap it out aint got time to wait.

 

[BWG56]

When you put the new throw out bearing in, make certain that the retaining ring is down in the groove all the way around, I would order a new retaining ring also. Mine wasn't seated properly or it was fatigued cause I used the old one and I thought the clutch nut came loose again because I kept having to adjust clutch because it was pushing out further and further