Charging/Starter/Battery problem

[mptexas]

About a year ago I had a bad starter. I replaced it and it did not seem to work, so I sent it back and the starter shop folks told me it was fine, but sent a new anyway. I also had wildworx rebuild mine at the same time because I wanted it fixed. I got both starters in about the same time, but put the wildworx one on the bike. It did not work, it would just do a cquick sort of chunk like the one the starter folks said was good. I had the battery on a charger for well over a week and it showed 100% charged. So, I bought a new battery and she fired right up.

Since then my LED light wires frayed on the battery and caused my battery to melt when I tried to start it. I cleaned up all the wires from the LED light and ran them so they would not come into contact with the battery.

Now every battery I get seems to go bad. The one I bought to replace the melted one was a braille and it will now only crank the bike once after being charged to a full charge. I bought another battery Extreme Magna Power battery which was much cheaper than the braille. The Braille seemed to not get enough to charge to crank the bike at all even after being on a charger and showing full charge. When the Magna came in, I popped in the bike and she started right up. Now after about 6 cranks and 120 miles this battery is doing the same thing.

When I try to start the bike, I get a quick spin, but nothing good enough to start her up.

I am at my wits end. Another issue that just started is my headlight keeps getting blown. I originally had the light only on high beam, so I replaced the bulb and with in 10 miles that light blew. I replaced the buld again and same thing, it blew after some riding.

How can I figure out what I need to fix. Most posts lead me to believe it would be the ECH, but before going there I would like to make sure.

All help appreciated,
Michael

 

[HMAN]

Start with the basics. Check each and every connector and wire until you find your short. Its blowing your headlight and draining your battery...you have a place to start your troubleshooting. Don't forget the wires under your back fender and the ones by your tank. Take your time and keep us posted.

 

[mptexas]

Shorts

It has been a long time for me to look and read a voltmeter. How do I check for shorts again?

And what really confuses me is a brand new battery makes the bike seem perfect. Cranks up, runs fine, when I last checked the voltage to battery seemed good. I will check it again once I have a battery charged enough to check. I know how to check the voltage using a voltmeter, but I do not remember how to know if I have short and how to pin point it.

 

[mptexas]

I also noticed pin #30 and pin #31 are blinking red when I turn the key on. Is that normal?

 

[TapioK]

Blowing light bulbs and batteries going bad may well be the case of broken voltage regulator. It may be charging too high voltage. That will boil battery and blow bulbs.
Test charging voltage first....

http://www.bigdogbiker.com/forums/how/61960-how-check-charging-system.html

 

[mptexas]

I have that topic up and plan to run through it as soon as the battery is charged up fully again. Can the overcharging of a Voltage Regulator actually cause a battery to go bad? If that is the case then it certainly leans to my situation.

 

[TapioK]

Well, I can tell from experience, that overcharging makes our little battery boil and steam like shit! That will ruin the battery in hours rather than days. acid evaporates and battery is trash. That problem should be taken care before it ruins your EHC or Wire Plus too... I had this problem in Thunder Bay, figured it was just a bad battery and just replaced it . New Wire Plus unit was 250. regulator about 70. Tow truck 150. Yes, I was stupid not to check regulator first, but whisky, beer and company was pretty good.....LOL

 

[mptexas]

hot

My battery never feels that hot, except for the time I have the wire from the LED touching the ground on the battery. With that fixed, the battery feels fine to the touch, not to say that over charging could not still be the problem.

 

[mptexas]

on or off

Should the resistance and ground checks for below be done with the motor running or while it is off?

AC Output Check:
1 Unplug the regulator plug from the stator
2 Start motorcycle and change Voltmeter to AC volts.
3 Probe both stator wires with your meter leads.
4 The motorcycle should be putting out approximately 18-20 ACV per 1,000 rpm. (Reading will vary depending on system, check service manual specification)

5 Generic Specs:

22 amp system produces about 19-26 VAC per 1,000 rpm
32 amp system produces about 16-20 VAC per 1,000 rpm
45 amp system produces about 19-26 VAC per 1,000 rpm

Stator Resistance Check:
1 Switch your multi meter to Ohm x 1 scale.
2 Probe each stator wires with meter leads and check resistance on meter.
3 Resistance should be in the range of 0.1-0.5 Ohms. (Reading will vary depending on system, check service manual for specification)

Generic Specs:
22 amp system produces about 0.2 to 0.4 ohms
32 amp system produces about 0.1 to 0.2 ohms
45 amp system produces about 0.1 to 0.2 ohms

Stator IB test or Ground Check:
1 Switch your multi meter to Ohm x 1 scale.
2 Probe each stator wire with your positive lead on multi meter and the negative to ground.
3 There should be no continuity to ground on either wire.
4 If there is continuity to ground your stator is shorted to ground.
5. Regulator Test:
Each of the following tests isolates the regulator only, so if any of these tests fail, the regulator is at fault.

 

[TapioK]

On AC test engine running, on other not.
To do first things first, test what is the voltage on the battery with power on (Full battery should be 12.6) ,it drops on start but should get back when engine is running. On idle maybe around 12.6-13V on 2800 rpm around 14.3V If the numbers are around there, you would then like to see whether the numbers change when the regulator gets hot....

 

[mptexas]

For the VR to get hot do you have to ride the bike or can that happen at idle sitting?

 

[TapioK]

riding is best, revving the bike while sitting works too. Hell, you could even use hairdryer to help VR to heat up! btw open the door if you are in garage!

 

[mptexas]

Sadly I have tried charging the Braille that seems to have gone bad, but the charger says it is full and the voltage is correct will not start the bike. I have also tried with the Magne that has only 120 miles on it with about 6 starts. Neither will start the bike.

This is the 4th battery this past year that has done this and each time I buy a new battery, the new batter will start the bike.

I guess at this point I need to try and do the tests to the stator and the VR that do not require the bike running. I am not sure if those tests will tell me if the VR is over charging though.

 

[TapioK]

well, you could loan the battery from your car and use start cables.. Make sure the wires are all properly connected to the start cables. If you keep the battery attached to car while testing DO NOT run the car engine!!! It will fuck the electronics easily. Or you could keep the battery in bike and use start cables... again, DO NOT run the car engine!

 

[mptexas]

OK, I finally decided to use the push button the starter to see if she would start with the battery. I had the Braille battery in that had been charging all day. Once I pushed in the starter she took a second but cranked up. I read the volts to the battery with without the VR plugged to the stator and got 13.47 volts. Which I find strange cause I would assume I would get 12.6 at best. I plugged up the VR to the stator and got 15.02 which seems normal.

NOw I am even more baffled at why the battery could not start the bike on its own, why my headlight bulbs are blowing, and why my batteries even after charging do not seem to have the power they should have.

 

[mptexas]

OK, after it started I let it run a bit and get good and warm. I check the voltage at the battery and it was at 17.79, that seems really high. Also, once I revved it up some the voltage dropped down to about 14.5. Once I turned off the bike it came down to 13.4, which again seems high when the bike is off.

 

[mptexas]

The AC volts while at idle are at 29 with the VR disconnected from the stator.

 

[TapioK]

If voltage gets to 17 it will blow bulbs, and ruin the battery, no question about it. VR is crap. Luckily it is easy to replace and costs about 70 bucks. You should still check stator tough and all the connections. When replacing the VR, don't splice the wire to the battery, but replace the whole wire.

 

[mptexas]

OK, ran it again, as soon as it cranks up the voltage on the battery climbs to 17.5x, then I rev the engine and she drops back down to 14.5x. Then we put a hair dryer to the VR and she immediately jumped up to 17.6x.

Does this mean the VR is bad? If so I am still a little baffled at why I had to use the push button to start her. I will say after she got warm and I guess the charging from the bike, even with the Braille (which has been acting like bad battery) she starts right up without the push button.

 

[mptexas]

Tapio,

Thank you for all your help. Do you know if I can get the stator form power sports or Harley? I was hoping to make it to a bike rally tomorrow. Do you by some chance know the part number? Do they sale the cable along with the stator? Sorry for the crappy questions, raising against the clock.

I will check the stator as the books states with the engine off. The acvolts looked good at 29, around 1500 RPM, but I also checked the acvolts when the bike was off (at the battery) and it still showed 29 volts, so I assume that is a bogus measurment.