cam is fooked- spun the nose bearing and broke thrust washer

[LA_Dog]

heard some whining from cam chest, changed oil and found steel pieces in filter. opened cam chest. nose cone bushing was spun out of cone and is stuck on the cam end. :angry:

the metal thrust washer that sits between inside of cam and engine case is missing a portion of it and is dangling. so i know where the metal pieces in the filter came from anyway...

the position of the dog-eared thrust washer looks like it was correctly positioned, but it is mutilated. there is no other spacer washer present and it looks like there is a bit of clearance. goddamn this thing was running so good too. why the hell would it grenade like that?

I hope I can get the stuck nose cone bushing off the end of camshaft. I think I caught this issue pretty early- anyone have some insight as to what to do next? My nose cone is an SS billet, the pin key for the nose bushing sheared clean off, front rubber cam seal is fried.

 

[pknowles]

Yes, stop the bleeding. That motor is possessed.

 

[BWG56]

Yes, stop the bleeding. That motor is possessed.

WTF :roll:

 

[LA_Dog]

Yes, stop the bleeding. That motor is possessed.

So that is your technical opinion? LOL.

If anyone has seen this type of event before, I'm trying to figure out why it could have happened (demons aside).

 

[woodbutcher]

Did you give the witches the chickens yet????

 

[pknowles]

"nose cone bushing was spun out of cone and is stuck on the cam end" New cone, new bushing and new cam. Your parts sound like they are hosed. Just a little more technical.

 

[BWG56]

Holy $hit, this is like pulling teeth to get info:lol:

 

[LA_Dog]

"nose cone bushing was spun out of cone and is stuck on the cam end" New cone, new bushing and new cam. Your parts sound like they are hosed. Just a little more technical.

No shit- really? Your level of knowledge is astounding, I never would have figured that out on my own. So just slap in a grand worth of new parts and let 'er rip eh? :2thumbs::2thumbs:

Sounds like you'd be right at home working in one of the LA "expert" shops here.

 

[pknowles]

If you look back in this thread far enough, you will figure out your problem. I'm no expert but seems like you are pretty smart at chucking money at it. By the way, all my shit is running.

 

[LA_Dog]

If you look back in this thread far enough, you will figure out your problem. I'm no expert but seems like you are pretty smart at chucking money at it. By the way, all my shit is running.

OMG dude- What a total dick. The only 'shit running' here is you. unbelievable. :loony:

 

[pknowles]

Dude,

 

[tommy666]

Calm the fuck down! It's only money and time...

 

[Tim]

Lets stay on topic guys.

 

[Thors]

I'll throw a guess at this. Only reason I can think the bushing would fuse to your cam is an oil delivery issue to the bushing area. Heats up, fuses, then beats the ever lovin crap out of the washer as the cam is no longer supported properly. So if that were the case, I'd be lookin at the oiling system to see if something was amiss.

On the other hand, could the washer have bound up somehow and put undo pressure on the cam thus causing the bushing/cam fusion? Take some close ups and post them so we can see the carnage.

 

[Sven]

1. Cone to cam end cracked off is it? My guesses are if we are guessing here:
a. Brass cone insert was not honed to clearance.
b. Hole to hole of the brass instert to the cone was lined up but off some = starving oil or what could have been a proper honed insert and now this oil hole offset.
c. Soft metal to galling and now hauling like a snowman you roll that snow but more it's galling and welding to each other.
d. The galling continues as they interlock eventually; the nose and tip of the cam stay locked, the engine keeps rolling and sheers off from the welding.
e. The shim washer is sitting there waiting for the cam end to rub down some sheer-off and down the shim she goes after so much metal being galled off now, at this other angle.
f. So the brass to nub gall is X angle; then the cam shaving the nub and that angle being Y. Look at how much metal has fallen into the crank; back into the bag; chewed thru the oil pump gears.

2. Me personally? I am at a full engine teardown scenario so as to remove/inspect every little cranny for debris and its removal.
a. My crank is pressured at the big rod ends, and now that spent oil out the crank: reverts to a second lube and that is called splash lube.
b. I am not about to have floating debris being lifted into the oil splash, be slung up into the piston skirt and cylinder wall.
c. There is piston slap happening but within tolerance. So I am not about to have a galling effect of more parts with debris as the crap is caught in between slaps, the gall goes up the wall, then the return slap releases the debris's damage and debris and she is waiting for more slappage is that package staying together and just replace the cone and cam?

Signed,

NOLTT (no one listens to turtle)

 

[LA_Dog]

I'll throw a guess at this. Only reason I can think the bushing would fuse to your cam is an oil delivery issue to the bushing area. Heats up, fuses, then beats the ever lovin crap out of the washer as the cam is no longer supported properly. So if that were the case, I'd be lookin at the oiling system to see if something was amiss.

On the other hand, could the washer have bound up somehow and put undo pressure on the cam thus causing the bushing/cam fusion? Take some close ups and post them so we can see the carnage.

Yeh it is something like that- will post pics up shortly. basically it looks like the cam was not installed with any end play. once the cam cover was tightened down with gasket squish, it was pressing the cam against the rear spacer and thrust washer, and up against the nose bushing - e.g. sandwiched too tight. it ended up "cupping" the thrust washer which eventually cracked in half and it then started grinding away against the spacer washer. and it was a damn thick spacer washer that is now sanded to half it's thickness!! the spacer washer ate into the tail of cam. the nose bushing was seized onto the cam end all the way flat onto the gear face. so there was just no room and the cam was fighting to make its own room. just effing beautiful.

I've ordered a new nose cone from HD, a new cam from TMan, thrust washer, spacers, related gaskets etc. And I'm also pursuing getting my money back from the shop for all labor. I'm going to end up pulling everything apart on the motor myself this time and if everything is reasonably fixable I'll get it done right myself. I'm sick of paying "professionals" to just fuck shit up or do half ass work. I could post a list of things that were not put back together right on my bike that I've had to fix over the past few weeks. This is just the icing on the cake, and with a nice long holiday weekend I will NOT be riding.

 

[LA_Dog]

Thank you Sven I am going to get all of that covered including going through the motor. cam was set up without any end play.

 

[LA_Dog]

Here's the carnage photos guys- I know you all like the XXX rated nasty bike parts porn, so here is some of the ultra-filthy stuff. Unfortunately not sexy at all..


cam nose bushing stuck onto the end of cam. it is fused on there.

Closeup- the teeth marks on the nose bushing was me trying to spin the stuck bushing off. i gave up when I saw the scoring on the tail of the cam from the spacer eating into it. cam is shagged. see next pic.

look at tail of cam in lower left- see the groove gouged into it? that ws from the black spacer washer in the upper part of pic. the thrust washer is cupped forward and split from being jammed back into the case.

Lastly a shot of the case- there are a couple of light chips on the case near where the dog ears sit from the thrust washer. the bearing looks ok fortunately. but I still gotta take the oil pump out and rest of motor apart to clean any metal bits out.

 

[LA_Dog]

new cam installed today. used a .070 spacer for final clearance (cover torqued) of .009.5 end play. the PREVIOUS spacer was .080. So guess what that equals... minus .001 end play. Now I know why the thrust washer was cupped inward and split. less than zero end play. The white pinion gear was too small by a long shot for the red gear cam. installed red pinion.

Really pisses me off.

I could not wrap things up today because my SS "quickie" pushrods will not fit- the two shorter pushrods will not clear the tappet block by 3/16" - probably because my heads and jugs are milled shorter, and the valves are sunk deeper into the heads. Now I gotta pull the rockers.