Bobby Schultz saved the day

Energy One

postman

Active Member
I thought my clutch was slipping tried to adjustment from the manuel and it didn't help. Order a new clutch kit from Energy One and installed it but it didn't fix the problem. I then took it to a local mech and he told me my 4th and 5th gear was slipping on the main shaft. He is a certified S&S mech so I thought he knew what he was talking about. He said it would be about 1700 dollars with him doing the takeoff and install and Baker doing the rebuild. My bike has 12000 miles. Thanks to our forum I talked to Bobby Schultz and he told me that he had done some bikes that had the same issues that I had. I trailer the bike to Bobby last Saturday and that night he called and told me bearings were the problem. On Friday I touch base with him and he was going to start the rebuild that night when he had all the parts stayed up to 3:30 am and went to work at 5:30 just to get my bike ready Saturday afternoon. It is a 10 hour roundtrip. Bobby and Mike are great mech very professional if anyone needs any work done in and around Charllotte NC give him a called I highly recommend both of them.
 

KnotSo

Admin
Staff member
Good to hear this about Bobby and Mike. Good techs are few and far between.:2thumbs:
 
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Bowhunter

Well-Known Member
Way to go Bobby, now the Postman(Benny) and I can tear up the neighborhood again! Honesty and integrity are so hard to find these days that a 10 hour round trip to get a fair shake from a qualified mechanic is time well spent. Benny has been singing your praises all day today, he said that you remind him of me(that's a good thing).
 

Bobby Schulz

Active Member
Well thanks again guys! Trying to start my new venture and hope to work on quite a few more big dogs...If anyone needs some work done on their bike,car,or truck just give me a call. Postman....how do ya like the tag?
 

postman

Active Member
Bobby the tag is a lot better turn up, it's not a shin brusier anymore thanks again for everything.
 

Tom Chop

Active Member
Kudos To Bobby Schultz...Sorry postman

:flag: postman, I`m happy to read there are still mechanics who give a shit about the repairs and maintenance of customers bikes at reasonable cost and in a timely fashion.:zz2cents: All too often it seems that the opposite is true and another dis-satisfied customer is left wondering what went wrong and where do I go now? Sorry for jumping your thread postman but I wished to take time to extend my well wishes to you Bobby Shultz.:rant2: :2thumbs: :choppersmiley: Tom Chop P.S. postman I`m jealous that you have such a valued mechanic at your convenience, even if he isn`t across the sreeet. Feel lucky for a really good and honest wrench, for some of us, is truly a rare find.
 

Five Five

Well-Known Member
Question for Bobby ....What bearings were replaced to correct the clutch slipping problem ....

Thanks "Five"
 

Bobby Schulz

Active Member
The input shaft bearing is the reason for the clutch slip...

That said Let me explain how it works and you will see the problem with the baker design on the DSSC trans that can cause clutch slip...as well as the seal from the primary to the trans to fail.

I used to rebuild gear boxes for machining equipment on stuff like lathes,milling machines,small to large electric motors for various apps. In that time I learned quite a bit about what held up for a long time and what would wear out rather quickly. I also build my own engine and transmissions for my 600cubic inch drag car so I have learned over the years quite a bit about what are problem areas in things that move.

In the baker DSSC the gears are straight cut on the 1st and 2nd gear(no side loading),after that they switch to a helical cut gear on the 3rd - 6th gear. The helical cut gear by design is going to push itself and everything on the shaft it's attached to one side.
Those of you that have ever built a "roller" style engine for racing use a cam button to control the camshaft walk caused by the helical cut gear on the camshaft that mates up to the dist. Think of the gears in the DSSC trans in much the same way.

Ok, now that we understand how that works here is where the problem comes in.
In the DSSC baker transmission there are no thrust bearings at the end of the case to stop the shaft from pushing sideways as the helical gears are loaded. Instead they use a annular bearing on the input shaft side of the trans.
A annular bearing controls a few things well... It not only controls upward/downward pressure that rides on the bearing but also controls a good bit of un-even angle loading like the extream pressure that is put onto the input shaft when the clutch is engaged and the primary chain is pulling against it. Now add to that the side loading we just talked about caused by the helical cut gears and you have 3 diffrent loads put onto the input shaft bearing.

When the bearing is new everything is great and it can control the various loads. However when the bearing starts to wear from the diffrent loads placed on it as well as the small metal dust that gets into the transmission oil from the gears, other ball bearings ,etc it just makes it wear out even faster and causes the bearings to pit and gall.

That my friends makes the tolerance excessive and is what causes the shaft to move over more that when it was new....Once you get to a certain point the helical cut gears will push out under load more than the diaphram spring on the factory clutch can hold the clutches and will start to slip.

That is also the reason the bandit clutch works better in our big dogs than the factory baker clutch. The bandit has coil style springs that will hold over a longer distance than the diaphram style on the baker as well as having extra clutches.

If you are having a hell of a time adjusting the clutch it may be that the bearings in that DSSC are going bad and you are fighting the push of the helical cut gears. Now you can also add to that shaft flex that will compound the problem even further as well as some clutch baskets that are slightly bent and the makings for even more problems. I will save shaft flex, and clutch baskets for another disscusion.

But in the end ...the bearings get worn,helical cut gears push the shaft to one side,the clutch diaphram can not hold under the excessive tolerance and you slip.

When I rebuild the DSSC for my customers I always suggest using very high quality bearings made for machining operations that are of good quality steel. I will not get into what brand,type,material,etc I use as that is my little secret but so far they have all held up well. I think that even with the bearings I use it will only prolong the wear. Im working on a thrust washer mod for the case and end cap that should help the problem but I will need to get a spare trans to work with for a little R&D when I get a little time.
 
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Trainguy

Chromeoholic
The input shaft bearing is the reason for the clutch slip...

That said Let me explain how it works and you will see the problem with the baker design on the DSSC trans that can cause clutch slip...as well as the seal from the primary to the trans to fail.

I used to rebuild gear boxes for machining equipment on stuff like lathes,milling machines,small to large electric motors for various apps. In that time I learned quite a bit about what held up for a long time and what would wear out rather quickly. I also build my own engine and transmissions for my 600cubic inch drag car so I have learned over the years quite a bit about what are problem areas in things that move.


In the baker DSSC the gears are straight cut on the 1st and 2nd gear(no side loading),after that they switch to a helical cut gear on the 3rd - 6th gear. The helical cut gear by design is going to push itself and everything on the shaft it's attached to one side.
Those of you that have ever built a "roller" style engine for racing use a cam button to control the camshaft walk caused by the helical cut gear on the camshaft that mates up to the dist. Think of the gears in the DSSC trans in much the same way.

Ok, now that we understand how that works here is where the problem comes in.
In the DSSC baker transmission there are no thrust bearings at the end of the case to stop the shaft from pushing sideways as the helical gears are loaded. Instead they use annular bearing on the input shaft side of the trans.
A annular bearing controls a few things well... It not only controls upward/downward pressure that rides on the bearing but also controls a good bit of un-even angle loading like the extream pressure that is put onto the input shaft when the clutch is engaged and the primary chain is pulling against it. Now add to that the side loading we just talked about caused by the helical cut gears and you have 3 diffrent loads put onto the input shaft bearing.

When the bearing is new everything is great and it can control the various loads. However when the bearing starts to wear from the diffrent loads placed on it as well as the small metal dust that gets into the transmission oil from the gears, other ball bearings ,etc it just makes it wear out even faster and causes the bearings to pit and gall.

That my friends makes the tolerance excessive and is what causes the shaft to move over more that when it was new....Once you get to a certain point the helical cut gears will push out under load more than the diaphram spring on the factory clutch can hold the clutches and will start to slip.

That is also the reason the bandit clutch works better in our big dogs than the factory baker clutch. The bandit has coil style springs that will hold over a longer distance than the diaphram style on the baker as well as having extra clutches.

If you are having a hell of a time adjusting the clutch it may be that the bearings in that DSSC are going bad and you are fighting the push of the helical cut gears. Now you can also add to that shaft flex that will compound the problem even further as well as some clutch baskets that are slightly bent and the makings for even more problems. I will save shaft flex, and clutch baskets for another disscusion.

But in the end ...the bearings get worn,helical cut gears push the shaft to one side,the clutch diaphram can not hold under the excessive tolerance and you slip.

When I rebuild the DSSC for my customers I always suggest using very high quality bearings made for machining operations that are of good quality steel. I will not get into what brand,type,material,etc I use as that is my little secret but so far they have all held up well. I think that even with the bearings I use it will only prolong the wear. Im working on a thrust washer mod for the case and end cap that should help the problem but I will need to get a spare trans to work with for a little R&D when I get a little time.
Ya that's exactly what i was gunna say:eek:

Wow:roll::2thumbs:
 

Five Five

Well-Known Member
The input shaft bearing is the reason for the clutch slip...

That said Let me explain how it works and you will see the problem with the baker design on the DSSC trans that can cause clutch slip...as well as the seal from the primary to the trans to fail.

I used to rebuild gear boxes for machining equipment on stuff like lathes,milling machines,small to large electric motors for various apps. In that time I learned quite a bit about what held up for a long time and what would wear out rather quickly. I also build my own engine and transmissions for my 600cubic inch drag car so I have learned over the years quite a bit about what are problem areas in things that move.

In the baker DSSC the gears are straight cut on the 1st and 2nd gear(no side loading),after that they switch to a helical cut gear on the 3rd - 6th gear. The helical cut gear by design is going to push itself and everything on the shaft it's attached to one side.
Those of you that have ever built a "roller" style engine for racing use a cam button to control the camshaft walk caused by the helical cut gear on the camshaft that mates up to the dist. Think of the gears in the DSSC trans in much the same way.

Ok, now that we understand how that works here is where the problem comes in.
In the DSSC baker transmission there are no thrust bearings at the end of the case to stop the shaft from pushing sideways as the helical gears are loaded. Instead they use annular bearing on the input shaft side of the trans.
A annular bearing controls a few things well... It not only controls upward/downward pressure that rides on the bearing but also controls a good bit of un-even angle loading like the extream pressure that is put onto the input shaft when the clutch is engaged and the primary chain is pulling against it. Now add to that the side loading we just talked about caused by the helical cut gears and you have 3 diffrent loads put onto the input shaft bearing.

When the bearing is new everything is great and it can control the various loads. However when the bearing starts to wear from the diffrent loads placed on it as well as the small metal dust that gets into the transmission oil from the gears, other ball bearings ,etc it just makes it wear out even faster and causes the bearings to pit and gall.

That my friends makes the tolerance excessive and is what causes the shaft to move over more that when it was new....Once you get to a certain point the helical cut gears will push out under load more than the diaphram spring on the factory clutch can hold the clutches and will start to slip.

That is also the reason the bandit clutch works better in our big dogs than the factory baker clutch. The bandit has coil style springs that will hold over a longer distance than the diaphram style on the baker as well as having extra clutches.

If you are having a hell of a time adjusting the clutch it may be that the bearings in that DSSC are going bad and you are fighting the push of the helical cut gears. Now you can also add to that shaft flex that will compound the problem even further as well as some clutch baskets that are slightly bent and the makings for even more problems. I will save shaft flex, and clutch baskets for another disscusion.

But in the end ...the bearings get worn,helical cut gears push the shaft to one side,the clutch diaphram can not hold under the excessive tolerance and you slip.

When I rebuild the DSSC for my customers I always suggest using very high quality bearings made for machining operations that are of good quality steel. I will not get into what brand,type,material,etc I use as that is my little secret but so far they have all held up well. I think that even with the bearings I use it will only prolong the wear. Im working on a thrust washer mod for the case and end cap that should help the problem but I will need to get a spare trans to work with for a little R&D when I get a little time.
Bobby excellent technical write up and it makes total sense to me :up: thanks for answering my question.

:2thumbs:
"five"
 
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