BigdogBro2 needs advice

BigDogBro1

BigDogBro1

Made in the USA
Hi Everyone,

BigdogBro2's bike has developed a whiring like sound this weekend. About 25K miles on bike..very well maintained and not abused. I thought that the chain adjuster had loosened up but all good.

Here are the symptoms.

You can gently accelerate 1,2,3 gears and don't seem the hear any or very little noise which seems to be coming from the primary side.

Shift into 4th gear and keep a slight load on the primary chain and there is noticable whiring noise.

Role back on the throttle to a NO LOAD condition and the noise seems to go away.

We did a clutch rebuild about 500 miles earlier and it has been performing just fine. New clutch pack, pressure plate, TO bearing and disc spring. Verified clutch basket condition was good. Clutch basket nut was checked for torque and okay.

We already pulled off the primary cover after the ride to check things out. Chain tension good. No movement in clutch pack and trans primary shaft. All sprockets and chain look in fine condition.

Could it possibly be coming from the stator?

Just looking for some direction before any teardown.

Thanks,
Rob
 
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KaptinAmerika

KaptinAmerika

Guru
Roll on load causing whirring sounds like maybe a bearing is overloaded or getting ready to fail. Can you tell if its coming from the front or back of the primary?
 
BadDawg Bill

BadDawg Bill

Well-Known Member
I agree with Curtis. I would check the trans bearing. (I know you have to pull off the whole primary) but if you let it go you will have major problems. Good luck
 
BigDogBro1

BigDogBro1

Made in the USA
Curtis,

Bro2 seems to think the noise is coming from the front of the primary case. Can't say for certain without using a mechanics stethoscope while riding (not a pretty sight). The sound could just be telegraphing through the case to the front side. Would have to reassemble for further test riding.
 
05chop

05chop

Well-Known Member
quick check drain trany fluild into a clear jar then use a magnet and look for metal
 
Jwooky

Jwooky

Well-Known Member
Rob, Important clue here is is is only happening in 4th. How about 5th and 6th?

Gears 1,2,3 are straight cut gear. Gears 4,5,6 are helical cut gears. Therefore they create side loading under power. The additional stress on the mainshaft bearing may be causing the whining noise he is hearing.
 
HMAN

HMAN

I just like my Freedom
Supporting Member
I had a broken compensator spring that caused a similar sound. Don't know if the Bulldogs run one?? Just a thought.
 
BigDogBro1

BigDogBro1

Made in the USA
Thanks for all the feedback guys.

I feel confident the clutch pushrod has plenty of grease from the rebuild.

I will check on teardown but I don't think this bike runs a compensator. (NO compensator)

Rodger that...on the helical cut gears.

Work begins on the bike this afternoon.

Thanks again,
Rob
 
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BWG56

BWG56

Guru
Shot in the dark, but check the top motor mount bolt, mine was loose and it was only doing it in the top gears only under load. Drove me nuts for a day or so until I found it.
 
BigDogBro1

BigDogBro1

Made in the USA
Haven't forgotten about this thread just no progress over the last few days, we didn't have a 1-5/16" socket for the front crankshaft nut on-hand.

We decided to pull the trans and send it to Andrew in New York. I made a small wood crate to safely ship the trans in. Two hours into the teardown and all we need to do is remove the crank nut and primary drivetrain, drop a shock and pull the trans. About another 45 minutes of work.

More to follow.
 
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BigDogBro1

BigDogBro1

Made in the USA
Update: 8/15/14

Finally got the front sprocket nut removed with an HD air impact wrench. When we removed the clutch pack I noticed one of the clutch carrier bolts was loose and had backed out a bit and was rubbing on the inner primary cover towards the front side of the clutch pack.

We are not sure but think this is possibly where the noise was coming from and feel that when put under slight load the clutch pack would tip just enough to cause rubbing. When load was removed the bolt head would not rub as much and the sound would be barely noticable. Why just 4th gear is yet to be discovered.

I checked the trans shaft for movement (up/down) and did feel a very slight amount .005" so we are pulling out the trans for rebuild to be safe while it's torn down this far.

One other thing was the primary side trans oil seal was tilted half OUT way on one side and the seals tension spring was broken and falling out. This is the first time this bike has beed disassembled this far since it was factory built.

Clutch basket is good but need to check all components.

Will post pictures
 
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Diesel Dan

Diesel Dan

Well-Known Member
05chop said:
quick check drain trany fluild into a clear jar then use a magnet and look for metal
Click to expand...

another quick test to do is drain the fluid into a clear glass bottle.........go into a dark room and shine a flashlight threw it....If you see any metallic stuff floating and shining in it...then you KNOW you have bearing issues for sure........:up:
 
BigDogBro1

BigDogBro1

Made in the USA
UPDATE: 9/10/14

Well we are now reinstalling the (Andrew) rebuilt trans after many delays. Trans is bolted in place and the starter is in. We ordered a new center clutch flanged HUB due to the internal splines are worn. Andrew replaced the trans main shaft due to OLD style and it was badly worn on the splines as well. The flange HUB ($85.00) should be here on Thursday so we can reassemble the primary side.

This bike has had the clutch nut come loose twice, hence the spline wear. The hub splines were worn on the splines rear side of clutch rotation. The trans shaft was worse.

We once again have bad weather coming in today so work may be delayed.

About two hours of work so far on reassembly due to O-ring install and applying grease to hold them onto the primary side of the trans during install, bolt cleanup, Loctite, getting trans shims back into position, Bolt torques and checking the manual.

We will continue to post updates on the progress. I decided not to take video because it's a pain and I don't have a video camera that has a view finder on it.

On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being engine and trans work) I feel the trans tear out and reinstall is an "8" due to the variety of hand tools, effort and overall mechanical experience needed for the different systems one being exposed to.

Rob
 
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pknowles

pknowles

RETIRED
this was the perfect time to install the Baker open primary. Andrew did my transmission on the K9 and the belt drive came in about the same time I got my gearbox back. I don't know about the other brand of open belt drives available, but the Baker was very easy to install with perfect machine work and very detailed instructions. Sounds like you and Bro 2 will be riding soon:2thumbs:
 
BigDogBro1

BigDogBro1

Made in the USA
UPDATE: 9/16/14

Due to the clutch basket nut loosening up twice before, we found that the splines on the inner clutch flanged hub were chattered and too worn to be used. We ordered a NEW flange hub but could not remove it from the clutch carrier bearing (double roller). Didn't feel comfortable using the worn hub on the NEW trans shaft.

I went as far as heating the clutch carrier with the inner hub in a lab oven a 250'F and then remove if from the oven and immediately fill the spline bore full with liquid nitrogen to quick freeze it. The nitrogen was repeatedly done till the hub showed signs of frost on the trans side. The entire unit was then placed under a large #4 arbor press with a 32" long handle and pressed.

Nothing ever gave way between the flange and the bearing so we gave up and order and NEW bearing carrier assembly from Baker Drivetrain just north of us with the flanged hub already installed. The OLD double bearing would had need replacing anyway due to the high arbor press pressure trying to remove the flanged hub.

We just need to reassemble the entire clutch pack and then install it into the primary. What a pain in tha ass this drivetrain is to deal with.

More coming.
 
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