MARV
Well-Known Member
S&S recommends 28 degrees.
advance till ping/detonation then back off a bit.
always when playing with timing check your plugs for white specs from detonation.
Best Damn upgrade!
- Thread starter Shredder
- Start date
advance till ping/detonation then back off a bit.
always when playing with timing check your plugs for white specs from detonation.
bdmridgeback
Low Down Chop Shop
28 degrees on a stock BDM 117? Mine has a .600 cam in it as well. I have no pinging what so ever at 32 degrees. I had more pinging with the stock ignition in the bike! It has cooled down so I won't know if I need to bump it back until we get another 90 degree day...
...say about december or janurary!!!
Sorry guys. I am in the great state of Florida, and still riding my bike!!!! (with a t-shirt at that)
...say about december or janurary!!!
Sorry guys. I am in the great state of Florida, and still riding my bike!!!! (with a t-shirt at that)
MARV
Well-Known Member
ok, between 28-32 degrees. with my 10.8-1 compression im at 28.
here's their tech note on timing
S & S recommends using electronic ignition with adjustable advance curve in Super Stock and Super Sidewinder Long Blocks. Adjustable curve permits slowing rate of advance to control or eliminate pinging under heavy load or when elevated temperatures or poor quality gasoline are encountered. Install ignition according to manufacturer's instructions. Leave spark plugs out while static timing to ease flywheel rotation.
Flywheels in S & S Big Twin-Style Long Blocks have three timing marks:
( F ) = Front cylinder firing mark, 35� degrees before TDC with vertical line in center of hole.
See caution below.
( R ) = Rear cylinder firing mark, 35� before TDC with dot in center of hole.
( T:F) = Front piston, Top Dead Center with colon) in center of hole.
Most fully electronic ignitions are timed at TDC. Points and other ignitions with mechanical advance are timed at front cylinder firing mark. With correct mark centered in timing inspection hole, ignition at full advance will occur 35� before TDC. S & S, however, recommends setting initial timing at 32� BTDC. This can be accomplished by setting the ignition to fire when flywheel mark is leaving timing inspection hole on left side.
CAUTION - Operating V2-Style Long Block with mark centered in hole at 35� can cause detonation and damage to engine not covered under warranty.
Additional minor adjustment of timing may be required due to poor quality gasoline or extremely hot climate, among other factors, but ignition should occur between 28� and 32� BTDC when fully advanced, and engine closely monitored for heat build-up. In general, excessive ignition advance will cause engine to kick back against the starter during start-up and "buck" when ridden at steady speed with partial throttle. An advanced condition can also cause pinging or ignition knock and possible piston damage. These symptoms may not be noticed if electronic ignition with "soft" advance curve is used. Excessive ignition retard causes sluggish performance and severe overheating with possible subsequent damage to the engine, and must also be avoided. Immediate or rapid exhaust pipe discoloration is usually a sign of retarded ignition timing.
CAUTION - Pinging or ignition knock is an early sign of detonation and possible impending engine damage. Should pinging occur, the throttle must be backed off and the cause determined and corrected. Excessive retard is less obvious but equally destructive. For that reason, final timing should be confirmed with a timing light or other accepted procedure.
here's their tech note on timing
S & S recommends using electronic ignition with adjustable advance curve in Super Stock and Super Sidewinder Long Blocks. Adjustable curve permits slowing rate of advance to control or eliminate pinging under heavy load or when elevated temperatures or poor quality gasoline are encountered. Install ignition according to manufacturer's instructions. Leave spark plugs out while static timing to ease flywheel rotation.
Flywheels in S & S Big Twin-Style Long Blocks have three timing marks:
( F ) = Front cylinder firing mark, 35� degrees before TDC with vertical line in center of hole.
See caution below.
( R ) = Rear cylinder firing mark, 35� before TDC with dot in center of hole.
( T:F) = Front piston, Top Dead Center with colon
) in center of hole.Most fully electronic ignitions are timed at TDC. Points and other ignitions with mechanical advance are timed at front cylinder firing mark. With correct mark centered in timing inspection hole, ignition at full advance will occur 35� before TDC. S & S, however, recommends setting initial timing at 32� BTDC. This can be accomplished by setting the ignition to fire when flywheel mark is leaving timing inspection hole on left side.
CAUTION - Operating V2-Style Long Block with mark centered in hole at 35� can cause detonation and damage to engine not covered under warranty.
Additional minor adjustment of timing may be required due to poor quality gasoline or extremely hot climate, among other factors, but ignition should occur between 28� and 32� BTDC when fully advanced, and engine closely monitored for heat build-up. In general, excessive ignition advance will cause engine to kick back against the starter during start-up and "buck" when ridden at steady speed with partial throttle. An advanced condition can also cause pinging or ignition knock and possible piston damage. These symptoms may not be noticed if electronic ignition with "soft" advance curve is used. Excessive ignition retard causes sluggish performance and severe overheating with possible subsequent damage to the engine, and must also be avoided. Immediate or rapid exhaust pipe discoloration is usually a sign of retarded ignition timing.
CAUTION - Pinging or ignition knock is an early sign of detonation and possible impending engine damage. Should pinging occur, the throttle must be backed off and the cause determined and corrected. Excessive retard is less obvious but equally destructive. For that reason, final timing should be confirmed with a timing light or other accepted procedure.
That is why I said to each is own,
I was just pointing out certain facts. I enjoy riding, city or long runs, it don't matter to me. All I know is that bikes do get hot, traffic or no traffic and more than 30 degree timing on a hot day will eat your lunch sooner or later. You like what you have and I like what I have so it lets ride.Carlos
bdmridgeback
Low Down Chop Shop
All these settings are at BTDC with the Thunder-Heart ignition.
Quoted by MARV:
S & S, however, recommends setting initial timing at 32� BTDC. This can be accomplished by setting the ignition to fire when flywheel mark is leaving timing inspection hole on left side.
john sachs
Well-Known Member
FWIW,
I find,most big engines,all brands,with cranking compression at 175 psi or more usually like 28 degrees of lead.The real deal to find what your engine wants is to put it on the dyno and see.Just remember that as you move the timing around,you may find you will have to move the jetting around as well.THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO OPTIMIZE THE COMBINATION.
John
I find,most big engines,all brands,with cranking compression at 175 psi or more usually like 28 degrees of lead.The real deal to find what your engine wants is to put it on the dyno and see.Just remember that as you move the timing around,you may find you will have to move the jetting around as well.THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO OPTIMIZE THE COMBINATION.
John
MARV
Well-Known Member
:2thumbs: thanks John, knew i was on the right track.
got my CCP at 205 psi. a bit much but the 640 cam likes it.
got my dynatek 2KI set at 28 degrees full advance with a digital timing light. then adjust the switches. it doesnt like the most aggressive setting, i think advances it to 31 degrees, which will ping under load.
hey BDM, how do you set the TH to TDC? it needs a starting point no?
lee
Well-Known Member
as what Marv alluded to above I think the IST advances the timing as much as possible before pinging then backs it off 2 degrees. I like it. Plug it in and let it do its thing. S&S must also have a lot of confidence in the system because if you buy an S&S engine with the IST you get an extra year warranty.
If you're like me and not the most mechanically gifted (stupid) and don't want to start setting timing yourself this system is the way to go (IMO). Its also pretty easy to install yourself - I did it so it must be! It is expensive though but then isn't all S&S stuff. You get what you pay for.
If you're like me and not the most mechanically gifted (stupid) and don't want to start setting timing yourself this system is the way to go (IMO). Its also pretty easy to install yourself - I did it so it must be! It is expensive though but then isn't all S&S stuff. You get what you pay for.
bdmridgeback
Low Down Chop Shop
The crank sensor is all set from the factory. It picks up on BTDC automatic without the need for a timing light. The timing curve can be set any way you want to get the most power out of it at every RPM as well, with a laptop.
bdmridgeback
Low Down Chop Shop
I stall have the stock one on the bike now, but will be soon installing the Thunder-Heart Coil that came in the kit.
I figure my stock coil can't be in too good of shape after three voltage regulators have shorted out on my bike since I got the bike. The last meltdown cooked almost every electrical component on the bike, including blowing out the headlight bulb!! That takes quite a spike to do that.
I figure my stock coil can't be in too good of shape after three voltage regulators have shorted out on my bike since I got the bike. The last meltdown cooked almost every electrical component on the bike, including blowing out the headlight bulb!! That takes quite a spike to do that.
bdmridgeback
Low Down Chop Shop
Bump for Ryan at Gateway Big Dog...
*Note, there are no thread edits at the bottom of any of my posts or within the thread at all.
...And I don't happen to see any of the info you said you did.
*Note, there are no thread edits at the bottom of any of my posts or within the thread at all.
...And I don't happen to see any of the info you said you did.
TCALZ06
Well-Known Member
I'm curious who did your head work? Did you happen to dyno before or after the iginition?
Has anyone else had this experience after heads, cam, and carb?
TCALZ06
Well-Known Member
I finally got this ignition installed today.
I bought another ignition so I could take the plugs off of it. As Someone else mentioned there is a difference in the thickness of the 5012 ignition versus the stock one.
Also the plug that has 2 wires Grey and white will connect to the white and brown wire on the stock wiring.
I will also mention you have to have the key on and hit the run button to change the tac setting as Jake mentions in his write up. Until I did this I could not get the computer to read the module. The change fixed the tac reading half the first time.
I didn't see anyone else mention it but it looked like most who have done this so far have a hard tail. My new 5012 ignition didn't have threaded holes like the stock one. There is also not room to use bolts as the picture in Jakes thread shows but I have a K9 so I'm guessing thats why the battery box frame is different. I had to zip tie it on for a test ride but I'm going to be removing the Ech next so I think there will be room then.
I set the timing at B or 30 degrees and the bike ran good. Seemed to rev up faster and had more power.
I have the 600 cam, John sachs heads milled, Johns worked over carb and FSD Hotrod slashed pipes & the S&S single bore 2 filter intake. I plan on getting this thing on the dyno sometime so it can be tuned but I'm guessing I'm loosing a lot with these pipes.
Thanks to Jake for the great write up it makes the install MUCH easier
I bought another ignition so I could take the plugs off of it. As Someone else mentioned there is a difference in the thickness of the 5012 ignition versus the stock one.
Also the plug that has 2 wires Grey and white will connect to the white and brown wire on the stock wiring.
I will also mention you have to have the key on and hit the run button to change the tac setting as Jake mentions in his write up. Until I did this I could not get the computer to read the module. The change fixed the tac reading half the first time.
I didn't see anyone else mention it but it looked like most who have done this so far have a hard tail. My new 5012 ignition didn't have threaded holes like the stock one. There is also not room to use bolts as the picture in Jakes thread shows but I have a K9 so I'm guessing thats why the battery box frame is different. I had to zip tie it on for a test ride but I'm going to be removing the Ech next so I think there will be room then.
I set the timing at B or 30 degrees and the bike ran good. Seemed to rev up faster and had more power.
I have the 600 cam, John sachs heads milled, Johns worked over carb and FSD Hotrod slashed pipes & the S&S single bore 2 filter intake. I plan on getting this thing on the dyno sometime so it can be tuned but I'm guessing I'm loosing a lot with these pipes.
Thanks to Jake for the great write up it makes the install MUCH easier
