Adding spike aircleaner to EFI
- Thread starter mirage814
- Start date
Fourbar
Member
Hello Pat,
I have a spike on my '07 Bulldog EFI. S&S said along with my Vance & Hines 2-2's, it is causing my malfunction indicator to come on giving me an error code P0170 Bad Sites Front. I am soon going to change my ECM out for a programmable one to "tune" this out with the Protune II program. Love the looks, but it was enough of a change from stock to go over the limits allowed by the EPA when the bike was built.
Take it easy...
I have a spike on my '07 Bulldog EFI. S&S said along with my Vance & Hines 2-2's, it is causing my malfunction indicator to come on giving me an error code P0170 Bad Sites Front. I am soon going to change my ECM out for a programmable one to "tune" this out with the Protune II program. Love the looks, but it was enough of a change from stock to go over the limits allowed by the EPA when the bike was built.
Take it easy...
Jwooky
Well-Known Member
The stock ECU is good for +/- 20% change in injector duty cycle. I would be really suprised that would be absorbed with pipes and an air cleaner.
Absolute worst case you would have to replace with an "unlocked" ECU as previously stated.
I do recall recently that Ohmster stated he was aware of a way to unlock them so you may want to contact him first.
Absolute worst case you would have to replace with an "unlocked" ECU as previously stated.
I do recall recently that Ohmster stated he was aware of a way to unlock them so you may want to contact him first.
Fourbar
Member
I do not have the wire plus installation. Mine is completely stock in the electrical system. So I have no advice I can give to you. I'm just going off of what Tom at S&S and a certified S&S EFI tuning shop has told me to do. This is all new to me. I can do mechanical, but electrical I freakin' hate with a passion! lol I do plan to have the bike tuned by the S&S EFI certified technician just to tweak the new map supplied by S&S for idle and cold starts... might even have him dyno it. As soon as the weather warms up and my job slows down, I plan to do the work... not sure when that will be.
Jwooky
Well-Known Member
Wire plus, or EHC, PDM etc...has nothing to do with the fuel injection management.
This is completely controlled by the S&S VFI module. Often referred to as (ECU,EFI) module.
The module is self tuning/learning, up to the 20% limit. Not sure about the benefit of having someone "tune" a self tuning module.
This is completely controlled by the S&S VFI module. Often referred to as (ECU,EFI) module.
The module is self tuning/learning, up to the 20% limit. Not sure about the benefit of having someone "tune" a self tuning module.
Yes and no.
Let me start with the YES part. EFI has a vac switch like the VOES, yes? Vacuum calls the shots. Will you pull less vac with less restriction? If we went for rpm vs rpm speeds, no, we'd even out. Where is the problem? Not here at sustained.
WOT about this position? Nope, not there either. Look at the vac pull at full load. Wide open throttle is the same sustained speed, only in a linear move this time. So constant and linear are the same you might say. The vac sensor cannot tell the difference.
Lets add the NO part. When there is less restriction, which is faster entering that void, light fast air, or slow heavy liquid? See that initial throttle opening happen? There is a slight change of air moving faster than the fuel getting there. So no, you might find this slight problem but still nothing to worry about. Why? Because the vac action at the sensor calls the spray. We are load based. Load on a sensor. That pressure is like taking a ride up the mountains and that pressure change. Load is the base signal.
What about these codes happening and no codes happening? That I don't know> Here is what is strange. If the bike was idling, I WOT the throttle, I just caused a huge speed event short of floating the valves. Why did not the code come on then?
So the question is, will an air cleaner cause a code? If you remove a sensor, then yes. But if the bike idles, it has no clue if the air cleaner caught a hole in it to cause less restriction. There is something else going on with a code popping on.
Some of this make sense now?
francoblay1
The Spaniard
Air cleaner should not make a difference.... only (obviously) more (or less) air flow! :up: (sensors should keep doing their job)
Fourbar
Member
I was told the reason for the sensors bringing on the error is because they are pre-set at 30% of the total range by the factory for warranty reasons or EPA reasons. The EPA really restricted S&S on their motors because they were considered high performance...much more than a standard H-D motor from the factory anyway.
A programmable ECM will allow you to set the sensor at a higher pre-set, thus no DTC error and no malfuction light indicator coming on. Obviously, if this is true, you still could have an error if set at 35% and it senses over that. My bike runs great and the plugs are spot on so a P0170 Bad Sites Front DTC doesn't mean much in way of performance and I was told I would not "hurt" the motor if I set it as high at 50% like most tuners do (remember all this I was told by S&S, I do not know or claim to know. I'm sure there are guys on this MB that are very capable or have a lot of VFI experience on V-twins).
S&S is preprogramming the module #55-5034 with a new updated map for the 117" motor I have. Also, when I use the ProTune II software to clear my DTC, it always takes a couple of rides to come back so it is only reaching this error very occasionally, Usually, when I am accelerating harder than normal to reach the limit of the 30%. This is all confusing and new to me but this is what I have been told by S&S personnel.
Like I said previously, I like the look of the spike air cleaner, but have to question the percentage of open area vs covered area is close to 50% meaning it cannot flow as much air as it could. But, it must flow enough because my bike runs great other than the malfunctioning light coming on too often which is electrical and I hate electrical! lol
I'm not sure where the module (VFI) learns. I know it adjusts to atmospheric conditions, but how do the "limits" I have been told come into play? I believe the P0170 DTC error means there was a malfunction in the computer's control of the air/fuel ratio.
Any enlightenment is appreciated.
A programmable ECM will allow you to set the sensor at a higher pre-set, thus no DTC error and no malfuction light indicator coming on. Obviously, if this is true, you still could have an error if set at 35% and it senses over that. My bike runs great and the plugs are spot on so a P0170 Bad Sites Front DTC doesn't mean much in way of performance and I was told I would not "hurt" the motor if I set it as high at 50% like most tuners do (remember all this I was told by S&S, I do not know or claim to know. I'm sure there are guys on this MB that are very capable or have a lot of VFI experience on V-twins).
S&S is preprogramming the module #55-5034 with a new updated map for the 117" motor I have. Also, when I use the ProTune II software to clear my DTC, it always takes a couple of rides to come back so it is only reaching this error very occasionally, Usually, when I am accelerating harder than normal to reach the limit of the 30%. This is all confusing and new to me but this is what I have been told by S&S personnel.
Like I said previously, I like the look of the spike air cleaner, but have to question the percentage of open area vs covered area is close to 50% meaning it cannot flow as much air as it could. But, it must flow enough because my bike runs great other than the malfunctioning light coming on too often which is electrical and I hate electrical! lol
I'm not sure where the module (VFI) learns. I know it adjusts to atmospheric conditions, but how do the "limits" I have been told come into play? I believe the P0170 DTC error means there was a malfunction in the computer's control of the air/fuel ratio.
Any enlightenment is appreciated.
This is a concept and the abstract goes something like this. Every sensor can swing from 0 to 10. This is called a balanced system. If one sensor drops out, is out of range, shorts to ground, the black box takes on a redundant calc determined by engine speed an the other good sensor's input.
Correct. No matter the threshold number it still balances out as per handcuffing to the penultimate number of 760mmHg, or 14.7, or 1 atmosphere. This is our 1st number. Crank speed is the other part to the formula.
If we pulled a sensor wire out it would spit a code. That sensor was not in analog (many numbers sent out), but was more a one hit (continuous) number being sent. That sends up a flag the sensor is down/out of range. Once the analog freezes, the code is sent, the black box takes actions to save the engine from damage or goes rich meaning. It is handcuffed to the truth tables so the calc is more a replica of the calc needing an analog signal out of the black box. This is close enough to be redundant or the 'best' the truth tables calc'd out.
Karnaugh maps, truth tables, and Boolean expressions : Karnaugh Mapping
She-wink-winked at me just now. WATT would happen you install a plastic dowel with a determined hole that pushes into the intake sensor hose. She slows down the pull = No code sent. Damn, I wish someone was close with this setup to find out.
I'm going to take a guess and say it may not come on as much. Want to be the first one to try the restricting dowel trick, see if it works? Man has to write the limits or the threshold number. Each cell next to each other changes in the learn process. Again, back to the 'best' the truth tables and what it can come up with when a target is set like an AFR.
Correct. There is something called the 'Method.' The duplicator. The mimic. The Redundant Truth Table it is handcuffed to.
Method = a-N (mid-high range) and D-J (low-mid range). Vacuum sensor controls low-mid. TPS controls mid-high. When the sensor fails or the signal is out of range (30), Digital-Jetronics takes over. A black box is a digital unit. Digital means one so there are only one set values to each part. The analog like a rheostat or the dimmer switch has moving parts and creates many dims to brights. So analog is many, digital is one. Look at the wall switch. It's zero (off) or it's at 100w (on). There is no in between.
If the TPS goes out, a-N kicks in. The a means alpha, N means numeric. So how does the AFR change? Well, not too much on the WOT side, but a safety on the lift side. There is still vacuum pull on both load and lift, but the code takes safety measures or goes rich in the final calc.
This brings up more maps or files written that takes care of this. A computer is told what to do. Like a cad-cam machine. You have to program it to do certain things. There are 2 numbers needed so the truth tables can calc the rest. There is the 760mmHg number (when all else fails) and the crank speed number. These 2 determine the fuel calc in the redundancy. That's why you can't feel any difference when it happens, right? But if you had an AFR meter to see the change on lift, it might show safe rich.
Try that dowel hole deal. I'd be curious to see if the theory pans out? :loony: