9 plate vs 12 plate clutch

[Coolbreezin]

I understand the obvious missing 3 plates and thicker steel plates to compensate. But ultimately both stacks are still 1.960". So whats the benefit of my going down to 9 plates? I dont beat on my scooter. If anything Id like to gain a little more distance between the plates when the lever is pulled in (easier neutral). Im at 88,500ish miles. I have the recalled clutch basket already, but everything else is from 2005. Any recommendations on other parts to replace are appreciated. All information is welcome.
Thank you.

 

[mittens]

In general, the more plates the more fiction area and the more holding power. Not sure if the frictions surfaces are the same material between the two? Is moving down from the 12 to the 9 a common thing?

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

The nine plate is suppose to be an easier pull than the 12plate, but I can tell you its not simply the plate number that affects this. The bandit bruiser clutch pak for the BDM is I believe 14 plate and easier than the 9 as a rule (harder to get set to find neutral though)

 

[mittens]

Normally as a rule of thumb as you increase surface area, the pressure plates spring pressure is less needed so the more plates the easier pull.

same with Cars, single disk clutches then turn to pucks, then twins and triples to keep pedal pressure close to stock with extra holding power.... I have a triple in my daily right now. Tripple Mantic is rated like 1300 lbs of torque, but pedal pressure is like stock.

 

[Jwooky]

9 plate was the upgrade. In general I agree more surface areas is better, but if they are too thin and heat soak, warp etc, then the issues created out ways the potential benefit.

 

[Jwooky]

The nine plate is suppose to be an easier pull than the 12plate, but I can tell you its not simply the plate number that affects this. The bandit bruiser clutch pak for the BDM is I believe 14 plate and easier than the 9 as a rule (harder to get set to find neutral though)

I do not believe the number of disc has anything to do with the clutch effort, other than if they warped, which was an issue.

The ramp for the ball if what provided the effort reduction. I think they just combined the upgrades together.

 

[mittens]

So they came with 12, then they warped so the upgrade was a 9 plate pack to get back to thicker plates and less warping. That part makes since. I wonder how much the pressure plate changed or is the 9 plate set up still plenty to hold that power level.

 

[Coolbreezin]

Thank you everyone for your input. I'll open the primary and see what I have. I believe it's a 12.
What about other involved parts I should consider replacing? Ball, ramp, pressure plate, springs, whatever?

 

[SKOGDOG]

Take a look at the pressure plate—if yours is bright aluminum, it’s OEM. Any wear reduces the ‘stack height’. The newer hardened ones are darker brownish in color. The one I bought from Donna sure fixed my chronic slippage issue (08K9, 585 cam, dual runner, 2 into 1 exh). I explored replacing the disc spring, but was unable to find a source for it.
As Mittens says, some feel the 12 disc is more subject to warping bcs the steels are thinner. I ride a lot and some years back a buddy put a Bandit in his new ‘05 and gave me the 12 disc clutch—I installed it and rode without issue. But I always get the 9 when replacing…..
Please keep us posted on your repair—this stuff is interesting.

 

[mleach72]

Thank you everyone for your input. I'll open the primary and see what I have. I believe it's a 12.
What about other involved parts I should consider replacing? Ball, ramp, pressure plate, springs, whatever?

Definitely get the EZ pull ball and ramp. It came standard with the 9 plate clutches. You will like it much better. Curtis has them. I think you can get them from Barnes and Baker too.

 

[Coolbreezin]

When I had my 900 Ninja the steels had hundreds of dimples on each plate.
I assume ours don't have them because we're not supposed to beat on these ?
Other than plates and adjustments, is there anything else I can do for an easier neutral find?

 

[mleach72]

When I had my 900 Ninja the steels had hundreds of dimples on each plate.
I assume ours don't have them because we're not supposed to beat on these ?
Other than plates and adjustments, is there anything else I can do for an easier neutral find?

I think the 9 plate makes finding neutral a little easier. I did the upgrade around 2008. I'm trying to remember. I think neutral was a PITA with the 12 plate. My memory sucks anymore. Anyways, I have the 9 plate now and finding neutral is a breeze.

 

[SKOGDOG]

I think the 9 plate makes finding neutral a little easier. I did the upgrade around 2008. I'm trying to remember. I think neutral was a PITA with the 12 plate. My memory sucks anymore. Anyways, I have the 9 plate now and finding neutral is a breeze.

Makes sense——a single warped steel plate would drag and impair finding neutral—- the 12 disc clutch has more and thinner steels. I think if Coolbreezin goes with the hardened pressure plate (slipping) and the 9 disc clutch (slipping, finding neut), and EZ pull the problems are over.
After installing, I usually wind up doing a second adjustment after a day or so of riding to get it just right.

 

[Olde Man]

It would make sense that the more plates you have the less clearance you would have between each plate (more drag) for the same amount of travel provided by the clutch ball ramp

 

[Jwooky]

Thank you everyone for your input. I'll open the primary and see what I have. I believe it's a 12.
What about other involved parts I should consider replacing? Ball, ramp, pressure plate, springs, whatever?

Available upgrades, besides the 9 plate, are an anodized pressure plate, less wear and galling. New ball and ramp, to improve efforts.

There is also a higher force spring available too. I talked to Baker after my engine upgrades and they recommended it.

I would not necessarily change to it unless you are having slipping issues, as it has higher effort.

 

[mleach72]

I just remembered. As I said, my memory sucks. I definitely did have the 9 plate and EZ pull installed after feeling the clutch on the newer bikes. I was having slipping issues and the clutch lever was a bear in traffic. Neutral was a pain IIRC. The upgrade took care of all those issues, but a few years later I had the Baker open primary installed because I was getting tired of primary leaks. It came with its own clutch. Would that still be the 9 plate?

 

[TreeGuru]

I would think as long as your stack height is correct wether 9 plate or 12 plate your going to be happy making adjustments and finding neutral. Ball and ramp is a plus. If slippage is still an issue check wear on pressure plate consider upgrade to a Hardened Pressure plate and the primary fluid used. Could the 12 plate over the 9 plate be a marketing idea that you will get more power to the ground with less slippage or is it factual? Back in the 60's we would have our pressure plates beefed up on our cars a couple hundred pounds over stock.

 

[mittens]

I have a N1 shift drum in my Choppers OD6... Neutral is all the way down.... LOVE IT. CANT NOT find it. haha

Installed one in a buddys Harley too.

Probably put one in the Boxer if I keep it.

 

[RILUSI]

Surprised no one is mentioning what primary fluid you are running.
It has a lot to do with finding neutral and also slip, drag and grab.
I run many high HP bikes .. also have the Baker N-1 ignition kill on a bike and love it.
Have spent a ton of time with techs on clutch issues over the last 40 years.
BDL specifically states that you MUST run old fashion Type F ATF with all their clutches.
You definitely do not want anything synthetic in there . Either ATF , Good old dino motor oil or something like BelRay or Spectro primary fluid.
You don't need 32oz either... 20oz is fine. To much oil has caused me slipping issues before. I have even drilled additional holes in clutch baskets before with great results.
All the plates... both steel and friction must be flat or you will never get a good working clutch!
Just my .02.

 

[mittens]

I do only run Golden spectro Primary fluid. One of the first things I learned about BDM. & 10 years & clutch is good so far...