650 cam....BEWARE

[toadstool]

I have done a lot of work to the motor in the past only to be disappointed that another then another few thousand were being wasted on parts and labor that just didn't amount to anything I was hoping for. The performance has been shitty to say the least. I finally grinded my teeth and took the bike to a racing engine builder recommended by Bobby Woods. A tear down with major head work and cylinder modifications was quoted at $3,200. Holy freaking shit…

So the guy tears the motor apart and finds out that the tech who installed my 650 cam was one tooth off, making the motor essentially 17 degrees out of synch -a major issue with the performance. But, the valve guides were worn completely through and had done major damage to the valves themselves. He said this was due to the stock roller rockers and the 650 cam. So, those of you with a 650 cam and a lot of valve train noise BEWARE! You could have a huge catastrophic problem lurking.

 

[V]

That bites. Hope ya get it worked out !

 

[Little-Boo]

I have done a lot of work to the motor in the past only to be disappointed that another then another few thousand were being wasted on parts and labor that just didn't amount to anything I was hoping for. The performance has been shitty to say the least. I finally grinded my teeth and took the bike to a racing engine builder recommended by Bobby Woods. A tear down with major head work and cylinder modifications was quoted at $3,200. Holy freaking shit…

So the guy tears the motor apart and finds out that the tech who installed my 650 cam was one tooth off, making the motor essentially 17 degrees out of synch -a major issue with the performance. But, the valve guides were worn completely through and had done major damage to the valves themselves. He said this was due to the stock roller rockers and the 650 cam. So, those of you with a 650 cam and a lot of valve train noise BEWARE! You could have a huge catastrophic problem lurking.

Thanks for the tip. I use the 650 woods cam and have ported heads with the 2.02 intake Valve and 1.650 Exhaust Valves decked .030. However, when I did my motor I did the install and re-assembled the engine myself and made dam sure it was set up as it should be. I also switched to the S & S Roller rockers & boxes from the TP rockers that came with the Bike. I also use the Jim's Hydro Solid Lifters, and two in one Street Walker Pipes, XXX Carb with dual Thunder jets. Performance is bad ass, the valve train noise is loud, but that is the price I have to pay for wanting a hot rod. Unlike my H-D Sporster and Fat Boy which are very quiet, but the power sucks compared to the Dog. :2thumbs:

Carlos

 

[Brew]

Dude that bites! I'm sure they will set you up right and I hope you get the performance you've been looking for...:2thumbs:

 

[Five Five]

Thanks for the tip. I use the 650 woods cam and have ported heads with the 2.02 intake Valve and 1.650 Exhaust Valves decked .030. However, when I did my motor I did the install and re-assembly myself and made dam sure it was set up as it should be. I also switched to the S & S Roller rockers & boxes from the TP rockers that came with the Bike. I also use the Jim's Hydro Solid Lifters, and two in one Street Walker Pipes, XXX Carb with dual Thunder jets. Performance is bad ass, the valve train noise is loud, but that is the price I have to pay for wanting a hot rod. Unlike my H-D Sporster and Fat Boy which are very quiet, but the power sucks compared to the Dog. :2thumbs:

Carlos

Hey Boo...how many ponys you getin out of it since the mods....

"Five"

 

[KnotSo]

Sounds like your motor is in good hands now.:2thumbs:

Thanks for the tip and hope it comes out better than expected.

 

[Little-Boo]

Hey Boo...how many ponys you getin out of it since the mods....

"Five"

Don' t know cause I have not had it on the dyno. But seat of pants tells me the ponies are there. It will pin your ass to the rear of the seat and fish tail big time when I dump it in second and third. Have not really gotten on it in first past 25 mph or so then power shift to second and go for the gusto. Hope I can have it on the Dyno next rally if one shows up. I understand the local H-D has one, but them guys con't even bleed brakes right so I don't ever trust them to tune my dog.

Carlos

 

[Five Five]

Don' t know cause I have not had it on the dyno. But seat of pants tells me the ponies are there. It will pin your ass to the rear of the seat and fish tail big time when I dump it in second and third. Have not really gotten on it in first past 25 mph or so then power shift to second and go for the gusto. Hope I can have it on the Dyno next rally if one shows up. I understand the local H-D has one, but them guys con't even bleed brakes right so I don't ever trust them to tune my dog.

Carlos

Cool Boo....gives me goose bumps :up: 2.02"
intake .650" lift is breathing some fuel.....thanks I will be dreaming about it for few days now....your description of your Mod's is in alignment with my dream upgrade.

Thanks "five"

 

[barhopper]

Cool Boo....gives me goose bumps :up: 2.02"
intake .650" lift is breathing some fuel.....thanks I will be dreaming about it for few days now....your description of your Mod's is in alignment with my dream upgrade.

Thanks "five"

Bill, same cam and valves in my bike. You should have test rode mine.

 

[Five Five]

Bill, same cam and valves in my bike. You should have test rode mine.

Brad...I love everything about your scoot...thats a clean performance ride.... you jumped on it when we got on the freeway after leaving Rays.....gave me goose bumps with that top fuel sound....1st..2nd 3rd and you were gone.....who did your top end work ??

 

[toadstool]

Update: went to the shop to check out the work so far. The valve guides were not worn through as previously stated but were very worn and loose, causing damage to the valves.

The push rods wore spots in the rocker arms. Big Dog must have got hold of some soft metal.

My cylinders were machine poorly with a casting lip on the bottom that wore spots on the case and didn't allow them to sit evenly. He is surprised it didn't leak oil.

He is fixing all this plus changing the valves to a 2.008 intake and 1.625 exhaust and flowing the heads. He said mine had 2.000 intake stock?

I will be glad to get it home.

 

[echoniner111]

After bike fest in Roanoke april 16 mines getting the G carb, s&s roller rockers, .050 taken off tha jugs and the s&s .640 cam. Can't wait.
video the before and after dyno at Kyndall Johnson Customs. Ill post.
:choppersmiley:

 

[MARV]

After bike fest in Roanoke april 16 mines getting the G carb, s&s roller rockers, .050 taken off tha jugs and the s&s .640 cam. Can't wait.
video the before and after dyno at Kyndall Johnson Customs. Ill post.
:choppersmiley:

:2thumbs: sounds like a sweet build by a great builder, but in my opinion i think that cam needs more compression. S&S states 10.5:1 - 11.5:1. you can do the math but sounds like you'll be on the low end of S&S's recommendation. i'm close to 11.5:1 and from the dyno it grabs power at 2600 rpms. the lower comp would raise the power band. :down:

i have the same cam with .040 off the jugs and .060 off the heads with travel limiters in the lifters. Jim's roller rockers shimmed in S&S boxes. top it off with a PSI carb and 2KI ignition for kicks.

a bit high comp but its been about 4 years with no problem and pump gas. outruns every vtwin ive ridden with unless im breaking pivot bolts or twisting frame uprights.

if i could do over i'd go .050 and .050 to get closer to zero deck height.

 

[echoniner111]

I talked to him at length yesterday about the 05's being restricted and what was the first thing he would change and he was adamant about the jugs and the .640 cam. He said the heads that were on the 117ci were off the 124ci . He did say some more technical stuff but it was all chinese to me.
He said if all you were doin is stick a cam in and nothing else he'd put the .585 in.

 

[wyatt580]

Just for shits have someone else dyno it before. I'm big fan of zacs work but this will prove to all nay sayers with end #s... Peace... can't wait to see dyno sheets

 

[echoniner111]

Mine, no