2010 Bulldog just shuts down!

Energy One

ksmike

Active Member
2010 Bulldog EHC Info!

I have been trying to put as many miles on my new Bulldog as I can to get it broke in over the winter. It has about 400 miles on it now. Anyway, if I hit the rev limiter the bike completely shuts down! Engine dies, lights go off, speedo goes off. It will fire right back up by turning the key off and on and hitting the run switch. I was thinking maybe this was a engine protection program in the EFI but if this would happen to someone at night in traffic it would be a bad deal:eek: I am hoping that this is just a thing that happens until it gets a 1,000 miles on it. Everything else seem to operate normal.

Has anyone ever heard of this happening?
 
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erldawg

Guru
I have been trying to put as many miles on my new Bulldog as I can to get it broke in over the winter. It has about 400 miles on it now. Anyway, if I hit the rev limiter the bike completely shuts down! Engine dies, lights go off, speedo goes off. It will fire right back up by turning the key off and on and hitting the run switch. I was thinking maybe this was a engine protection program in the EFI but if this would happen to someone at night in traffic it would be a bad deal:eek: I am hoping that this is just a thing that happens until it gets a 1,000 miles on it. Everything else seem to operate normal.

Has anyone ever heard of this happening?
No disrespect however, read your manual for the recommended break in RPM's and shifting. I don't believe that hitting rev limits with 400 miles on the bike is in the mix. I was under the impression if you hit rev limits with the protection in the ECU it would just break up a bit not shut it down. Might be worth a little research on the S&S website.

I've always been a firm believer that the harder you ride during break-in the better it'll run later on. Disclaimer: Rev limits may be a bit too far.
 
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woodbutcher

Mr. Old Fart member #145
Staff member
No disrespect however, read your manual for the recommended break in RPM's and shifting. I don't believe that hitting rev limits with 400 miles on the bike is in the mix. I was under the impression if you hit rev limits with the protection in the ECU it would just break up a bit not shut it down. Might be worth a little research on the S&S website.

I've always been a firm believer that the harder you ride during break-in the better it'll run later on. Disclaimer: Rev limits may be a bit to far.
AGREE!!!!
 

1BADK9

Limited Edition Member
I know with the 07's hitting the REV limit threshold would just log an event in the EHC history, no shut down should be occuring because of it. You may have something that is loose somewhere and the higher rev is causing a disconnect or short. Does it have a cruisemate installed, if so check in the switch housing for metal shavings rattling around. That was my intermittant shut off problem when I first got my bike. Let us know what you find. :2thumbs:
 

ksmike

Active Member
No, it does not have the cruise mate installed. How does the cruise mate work?

The more I drive it the more I think it is not a rev limiter situation. Im saying Im hitting the rev limiter, just because that's the only thing I could think of causing the shut down. In reality, trying to watch the tach and accelerate, the RPM's only seem to be around 5,000, which is below the rev limiter and I dont feel the rev limiter kick in before it shuts down. The rev limiter soft cut is set now to 6,200 and hard cut to 6,450. It seems more to be an acceleration issue rather than RPM. Im going to lower the rev limiter to 5,000 and see what affect that has on things. I wonder if it has something to do with the bank angle sensor. The way I read the manual the bank angle sensor will kill the whole EHC if it is outside of the parameters.
 

erldawg

Guru
What is this bank angle sensor you speak of?
Bank angle sensor is in the S&S EFI ECU. It cuts the engine off if the bike is a a certain angle..Like laying on it's side.

@ksmike unless you have an unlocked ECU u cannot change the rev limits. On the other hand if u know how to hack the ECU and change it would be a different story..
 

ksmike

Active Member
Bank angle sensor is in the S&S EFI ECU. It cuts the engine off if the bike is a a certain angle..Like laying on it's side.

@ksmike unless you have an unlocked ECU u cannot change the rev limits. On the other hand if u know how to hack the ECU and change it would be a different story..
I misspoke about the CruiseMate, it does have one on it, came that way. I thought you were talking about something electronic.

I believe the bank angle sensor is in the EHC on my bike, so if there is a problem with it , I am screwed. The PDM retrofit for the EHC has an external bank angle sensor that plugs in, at least that's what it says in the instructions on the BDM website.

As far as my ECM goes, I must either have an unlocked version or the new ProTuneII software will tune a locked version. Im still learning the software, but it seems that I can upload, download and manipulate any data in the files. The version that came on the bike is a serial port style and S&S has upgraded the newer ones to a USB port. I bought a newer USB version with the expectation that I had a locked ECM, but I haven't had to use it yet. I ran the revlimiter down to 4,500 and could not get the bike to do a total shut down, even though the revs wouldn't go over that limit. I took the limit back up to 6,000 but haven't had a chance to drive it yet. Stock limit was at 6,200.

There is a lot of interesting reading about the ECH in the service manual, chapter 13.

BDM, Big Dog Motorcycles Tampa (813) 935-4166 Big Dog Motorcycle DaytonaMiami Custom Choppers Motorcyle Sales, Service Parts Big Dog K-9 Mastiff

Of particular interest is the history logging on the fuel injected models.

It seems the new "Smart ECH" has the ability to record and store various history about the engine. Such as miles, hours, and time spent over 6,000 RPM. Big Brother was watching . Now, if I can only get the software to upload the ECH history, I can do the watching.
 
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barhopper

Another round please
5000 RPM during the break in period? You may want to think that again. Prolly not a wise RPM.
 

BigDogBro1

Made in the USA
I have been trying to put as many miles on my new Bulldog as I can to get it broke in over the winter. It has about 400 miles on it now. Anyway, if I hit the rev limiter the bike completely shuts down! Engine dies, lights go off, speedo goes off. It will fire right back up by turning the key off and on and hitting the run switch. I was thinking maybe this was a engine protection program in the EFI but if this would happen to someone at night in traffic it would be a bad deal:eek: I am hoping that this is just a thing that happens until it gets a 1,000 miles on it. Everything else seem to operate normal.

Has anyone ever heard of this happening?

You should give the engine some warm-up time before cranking on it as well. Running the engine hard before it warms up enough can cause the cylinder base gaskets to leak and head gaskets to leak.

Sounds like you have an intermittent electrical connection.
 

ksmike

Active Member
!!!!Update on shutdown problem!!!

After having put over a 1,000 miles on my bulldog and the shut down problem hadn't resolved itself with more mileage on the bike I decided to find out what the real problem was. The most recent event that prompted me to look at the problem real hard was when it shut down and left me in total darkness traveling 70 mph, on a pretty narrow road in the country. I got pretty disoriented and panicked a little while fumbling to find the key to do a quick re-boot, so to speak. But I got the power back up and I was still on the road when the headlight came back on, so I cruised home and and reflected a lot. Honestly it scared me a little, and not much scares me on a bike after riding and racing for over 40 years.

So anyway, the more I rode it the more I realized that it wasn't an rpm or rev limiter situation. Sometimes it would shut down on hard acceleration even when I hadn't reached the rev limiter. It seemed like it had to be under hard acceleration for a few seconds before it shut down. I referred to the "bank angle sensor" or "tip over sensor" in an earlier post and it seemed like that could have something to do with my problem. Here is what the service manual says about the Tip Over Switch in chapter 7 , fuel systems.

QUOTE "The tip over switch (bank angle sensor), built into the EHC , shuts off the ignition and fuel pump if the motorcycle exceed a tilt angle of 57 degrees for approximately 2seconds. If there is an accident, or if the bike should fall over, the EHC shuts off power to the ECU and EFI systems."

With that small bit of information I started doing some research online, but could find very little additional info about the bank angle sensor on Bigdogs so I decide to educate my self on how they work. After looking at my EHC and pondering for a long time I noticed it was set in the bike at a rearward facing angle. I measured the angle it was installed at and it was 30 degrees, so I thought maybe under acceleration it was tripping the sensor. But still that didn't make sense because at hard breaking it could also trip the sensor. Did Bigdog not take into account the angle that the EHC would be sitting in the bike? Keep in mind at this point I didn't know completely how the bank angle sensor works. I decided to take out the EHC get slack in the harnesses and wiring and see how it really operates when subjected to different angles. So here is what I did....

With the EHC out in free air, still hooked up, bike all powered up, I rotated the EHC rearward until the electronics shut down. Conclusion: Shutdown angle about 75 degrees. (5 seconds for shutdown to occur)

Rotated the EHC forward untill electronics shut down. Conclusion: Shutdown angle about 50 degrees. (5 second for shutdown to occur)

Rotated the EHC to the left.....no shut down:confused:

Rotated the EHC to the right.....no shut down:confused:

WTF is going on here......so if i get this bike up on the rear wheel at a good enough angle for 5 seconds its going to shut down, but if it falls over it will never shut down????? Not how the Tip Sensor is supposed to work. :rant:

I did the tests in my garage for several hours, and several repetitions, just in case you think I'm jumping to conclusions. So just to verify my findings in the real operational world, i put my EHC back on the bike in an orientation 90 degrees from where it was originally, i.e. long side front to rear, rather than long side left to right.

Guess what....no more shutdown under acceleration:2thumbs: (several test ran on this situation also)

Final conclusion: My bike either had the wrong orientated EHC put in it or Bigdog didn't know or care that the EHC had to be installed in a certain way.

If I was a betting man, I would say I just have the wrong EHC in my bike, but without tech support from Bigdog, I will never know. Now I will fabricate a bracket to hold the EHC on the correct way.
 

Th3InfamousI

Administrator
Staff member
I find it hard to believe that you have the wrong EHC, they didn't make different ones for different models. I could however believe that it was installed backwards, although you claim it was installed at what I interperet to be sideways? Sounds much more difficult to do.

I wonder what type of sensor it is? Is the sensor inside the EHC just installed incorrectly? If I was a betting man that would seem more likely.

Either way kudos to figuring this out, hell I probably wouldn't have even thought of it!
 

ksmike

Active Member
My battery is oriented with both posts to the rear of the bike and the EHC is parallel in front of the battery. Now I will remount it perpendicular to the battery. I guess the internal sensor in the EHC could have been installed incorrectly. I wonder who was the OEM manufacture of the EHC's? I would love to see a schematic of one, it would answer a lot of questions.
 

Th3InfamousI

Administrator
Staff member
My battery is oriented with both posts to the rear of the bike and the EHC is parallel in front of the battery. Now I will remount it perpendicular to the battery. I guess the internal sensor in the EHC could have been installed incorrectly. I wonder who was the OEM manufacture of the EHC's? I would love to see a schematic of one, it would answer a lot of questions.
Yea thats what I was picturing in my head, just seems odd that perpendicular would be the correct mounting position. I think perpendicular was a better word to use than sideways but we were on the same page:lol:.
 

SIC FKR

Member
When I got my 2010 Bulldog I was told by the dealer owner to stay under 4k RPMs for the first 500 miles and to make sure the engine was warm before taking off to prevent the rocker arm gasket from leaking. I now have 1500 miles on it and no issues.
 

rwill20

Well-Known Member
I had the same problem,It turned out that it was the small hot wire connected to the positive side of the battery.When I would check it was tight.It turned out that it had corroded inside the eyelet,cut it off and put a new one on,no more shut downs.I hope this helps.
 

ksmike

Active Member
I have found the problem, and working on a fix for it. I will post when I have it corrected.
 

ksmike

Active Member
I have my EHC all fixed up now and works great, no more shutdown on acceleration. Once I realized that the internal bank angle sensor wasn't working properly I was going to remount the EHC in a different orientation, but that proved a little more difficult than I had anticipated. I gave BDM Performance a call and they said they would try to reprogram my EHC for me. I sent it to them, and they sent it back to me in a little over a week. They reprogrammed it and it works great now! I put about 140 miles on it today without a single hiccup. I know that BDM Perf. hasn't always got good feedback on here, but they were able to help me with this problem. :whoop:
 
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